From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk0-x22e.google.com (mail-qk0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B39AA3B260 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 10:23:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-qk0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id n204so142896145qke.2 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 07:23:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3RBPGGVyEoFy1hNtdS2seIvNo5Nsp9PfZplIkD3t5Kk=; b=e/wvh0Iv7I+W6QoTBh4NmEA5x+5OXcqYa85Wcr+D7+QHWNMwvWa0EmQOEj6j8mp0KI NyEbei8OVGMwIIhjdNp0i8XKiCZVztAzg6iud7BKWMWMxFSQNH3TTlZkps+1HWtWxYf3 JN10W2ZAIvIoMLFM8r/XZZKd0SL50yuePDJzWPme4Fk2qrzrjhW1bWPITZ3zAkbOVTfq LFJNcBHjw/Tkg3F7+DXI8T9kzmU96eiiZNFgvTCosi1+POrHj3Z6zfE3NXQ2lN1eVF2m 1L4ws0CWguwd7olVxk9IpJx7Kep3JibG9Ja/txG/3rurxw2wlK460D/cZYc3ry4TabLT SgiA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3RBPGGVyEoFy1hNtdS2seIvNo5Nsp9PfZplIkD3t5Kk=; b=eub6aiuEzohQIXXrDKkTHvGkJOtPAYbpsqr/5+JzzYEx43/TRqfk21Ie1mpH7KbiCV R2GcvAcbfPmaO7/Y9rzGLq0QUIxye+RZvll6jLGxctYZR+RXFHo6xmL5sxP192XZI+C4 lc/kN7yk7tQNDIMemtrWRDY0zN2YGh/qOYFtIfRZH2TmK1F+cRa5d9XV1mUT/S79my/t 8pZ1LpxMT05EgfG8NKG8QlL1wx6fMIpMM5xw7ZMflcuqdbj/tAoJN1YQKCNWdwLuVeBY vb975Xuy7kZ6Ej0YAzTjpAh6tMtHgjgIfr3FWSTuA2vud3ZH8q1eSMHWZ8S/dp+vDouj g2kQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC02wVzPpyojVYNzreA94k5+FKnoPhpBiCXTtmovTBScnltIdXQd97BgSe979IK75PSUmSXaN+3kXiMU48Q== X-Received: by 10.55.136.134 with SMTP id k128mr21124180qkd.196.1480346622363; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 07:23:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.137.198 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 07:23:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <548F6875-8670-4784-8A4D-9D4E6F0F20BD@gmail.com> <65cde0ee-4cc8-22c8-5274-a4eafe9cf338@pollere.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 07:23:41 -0800 Message-ID: To: Pedro Tumusok Cc: David Collier-Brown , bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat in 2017 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 15:23:42 -0000 On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 7:14 AM, Pedro Tumusok wr= ote: > > > On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 1:48 PM, David Collier-Brown > wrote: >> >> A short RFC with a clear summary would change the ground on which we >> stand. >> Include me in if you're planning one. For the record, the rfc output of the aqm working group is here: https://tools.ietf.org/wg/aqm/ And I'd made an attempt at developing a short RFC http://snapon.lab.bufferbloat.net/~d/draft-taht-home-gateway-best-practices= -00.html but encountered so much flack from the aqm-ers on the list, that I gave up, and decided to concentrate on getting the code out there on multiple platforms, to finding the problems in the algorithms in the real world, and creating de-facto standards. >> >> --dave >> > > There are some RFCs that vendors uses for throughput testing, RFC2544 I h= ave > seen on a few Firewall vendors datasheets atleast, not seen any reference > RFC3511. > > Pedro > > >> >> >> On 28/11/16 01:00 AM, Jan Ceuleers wrote: >>> >>> On 28/11/16 03:16, Jim Gettys wrote: >>>> >>>> Ookla may have made themselves long term irrelevant by their recent >>>> behavior. When your customers start funding development of a >>>> replacement (as Comcast has), you know they aren't happy. >>>> >>>> So I don't sweat Ookla: helping out the Comcast test effort is probabl= y >>>> the best way to get bufferbloat in front of everyone, and best yet, th= e >>>> code for the tests is out there. >>> >>> I do hope you're right Jim, but I still worry that Ookla is heavily >>> entrenched in carriers' test labs. This position has, I believe, come >>> about not because of Ookla's expertise in network testing but rather >>> because of market pull (i.e. speedtest.net's huge popularity with >>> end-users). >>> >>> As long as both of these positions remain (i.e. Ookla's mind share of >>> end-users and their resulting market share in the labs of large >>> purchasers of CPE) their lack of interest in bufferbloat is going to >>> keep this topic off the agenda in a large part of the industry. >>> >>> Unless Ookla can be coerced somehow. >>> >>> I have previously suggested standardising network throughput testing >>> methods and "grading" criteria. If there's an RFC on this subject >>> carriers are going to be interested in conformance to it and will >>> pressure their suppliers (of network testing gear, of CPE etc). >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bloat mailing list >>> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >> >> >> >> -- >> David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify >> System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest >> davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > > > > -- > Best regards / Mvh > Jan Pedro Tumusok > > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software! http://blog.cerowrt.org