From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ed1-x52b.google.com (mail-ed1-x52b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBD443B2A4 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 19:57:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id 30so16923775edv.3 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:57:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GgbVEMVDJPCOJhZqTEQa8k7MrUZ2wHLpVHD5A1quvjI=; b=gh5YSAHGy65jHdvAbaIUCJauma+4WDSnaYxuNbC/Ox21CrByPUq0hl+9xub3nutKL9 zQ5yYhMneJlH5tfKKj1ZhgCMQatouRQy/chf0HlTahQZTH0ylugTNSwA6H4YePOK99pm LwJvubxcv/trHhlku5sg86Ko2SNoIsa7eZqXs6tVyR11BS/qcSXe7HjyxisDeOPPSBZz N4fv4/JVpaveK6mFFpaJ4jUiP+kfHcO1DeA6LlKdnEYP29lLYk07uwfItyYMWmuXDUxo HnWVaYjvm73ivKyE6hVLFZ3zwEU8MmWA601zkO6dGVHtwVRDXctCYXCoxjtCCJpwkVxC hrTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GgbVEMVDJPCOJhZqTEQa8k7MrUZ2wHLpVHD5A1quvjI=; b=wjLwHK0XfhpDEloOHTKB9KBb4JuI/CA2xMdUp/mZ5R3eZfpJCufqfhegJQjGmjElO4 MHQOlxY5qIhqNZDIKJkP8Gejm1doV0e8sNXremZl4btnUycN2An3AFDWNfbur8O4ec7I 1S/SEVSdEFhP5K3n6qPEwUSdED3ZwUAfTqRsyUDdyo8du//bblyDo8QLHxBUI0lilRyd zVL9lFo2hOdtGh4zdHqzHk/OX8jR5lV+y83GxD7PVjxaRaR23Ob6M7txk68LkG8FDPUu 6fpllFbVmbw7t8o2dUgUQLQ6xshLOW1ukYk6Yqg7g4+6l7fq6sxwV8PlowNBY2GV4tor VGgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532LpaPsF3/mmUgr4E3jmHel4lzC1D7jVcNcpmyPxgD4mL8bJGtZ xVmsrhv7wupLub/kovy1NlRXe4mlIYglDZ2r0htp5sz7 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz/FBLLGCMpkWpLLL2EyYHVy81qyRh28iKfb0Cd3gqGtIhzqECXOx/3XgipWWAZQhoX/4/ZbIjiwB09aH3Ioyw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:724a:: with SMTP id ds10mr1811338ejc.262.1642035456692; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:57:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <334460f8-89e7-0ca8-75b8-edbdf30e7961@heavenlysanctuary.com> In-Reply-To: <334460f8-89e7-0ca8-75b8-edbdf30e7961@heavenlysanctuary.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:57:23 -0800 Message-ID: To: Marco Belmonte Cc: bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] ONTs and ITU - T G.988 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 00:57:38 -0000 What appeared to be the case was that a ONT had a 50ms buffer at 100Mbit and was reconfigured to drive a gig and thus only had 5ms. At least, that's what the data looked like. This was on a fairly recent reddit thread a month or two back, that I cannot find right now. I'm pretty sure it was in the context of eero's rolling out a working htb+fq_codel implementation finally for the eero 6, (or maybe it was the comcast AQM?0 and us discovering it didn't do any good, that the ont was seemingly brutally underbuffered, which took days of scratching my head.... multiple flent tests... wish I could find that thread... This is kind of ironic, but the structure of the speedtest (8+ flows with short RTTs) actually could lead naturally to buffers that short and few would notice. Anyway, that sparked me finally going and reading up a bit more about how ONTs work... On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 4:40 PM Marco Belmonte wrote: > > Dave, > > Can you describe to me what under buffered would look like? Let's say > I'm playing Rocket League on a Frontier FIOS connection... When a > situation arises where the connection is under buffered you might see > _____. > > A lot of interrupts being generated? connections timing out? lag? > > I'm guessing that many of the same symptoms that accompanying buffer > bloat also manifest themselves with buffer bleed? > > Marco > > > On 1/12/2022 3:42 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > Up until this point I haven't cared all that much about fiber, as most > > of my observations were that it had "reasonable" buffering and all I > > could hold in my head was the 802.11 standards. Since cablemodems are > > well on their way to being fixed, wifi is looking good, and I recently > > came across an ONT that was actually underbuffered, my holiday reading > > consisted of pounding through a ton of fiber specs like this one: > > > > https://www.itu.int/rec/dologin_pub.asp?lang=3De&id=3DT-REC-G.988-20171= 1-I!!PDF-E&type=3Ditems > > > > There's a lot of promising info in this spec starting from page 104. > > > > My 1st question is - are there any ONTs that actually do do pause > > frames? Or providers that configure for them? > > > > My second is - what is a cheap way to setup a lab to emulate a good, > > common, version of gpon e2e? > > > > Third - what OS do these things run? Who makes a "good" one? > > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 I tried to build a better future, a few times: https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC