From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt0-x22c.google.com (mail-qt0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BB9A3CB3A for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 00:29:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id t5-v6so14547639qtn.3 for ; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:29:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=a6A62RfE4qQTuEiSAy9uaBTyhBg/TcE0GI7kmrY/6ac=; b=KMxPB1fYZIxbU9rmF1Z06lVfR8yM+fGJCIQdmj4hRdtXa/3fGqIMw9mSu4lfloo9ch Y95T8xW13VqBsEvPGcJRprZWDlQVqw1ui5CiPQW8Jds/cC9eI2Bpvf+BW/QTElFSs8Pr hHNFJUawL2FaQLisBjJm2uZfF2S6mLx3gAYWOjpDaEYSrmv/JPAfCk7ktFzr36F0lToN 96meeNkXmIqJyGtnzRQKkAYEiaRRnfnUa2ETEo/PIV2FgjOgeO75TqWl+/n24ogL9Zmb ydi3zGvGjbfCPifS6MafK8Rxvx9YcWXWiSdvtkxLHEd83UaNcOCrwiHQ/9maQI/gdJ9Q 032w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=a6A62RfE4qQTuEiSAy9uaBTyhBg/TcE0GI7kmrY/6ac=; b=uQ/qrF9mVTR0zzgKuQiNRoc/iXd2V4SpcsF1kJdGL1+9EVT9J3fxx7BQc63+NJ5etm wQLoIFlyqLeYvh5Y2jh2ojUMd2vkSjzsJBAIva2Wa4JXVya00WYcrjHwQc+/613jy67h xe8ydUuWcJxqNTpAQJAigPjeuBnX/m0HoPZBq2IXZG+9XKsUK3J/zX4fvM8tkcOPsCQO C3sa5um9IOfJe/0zsBKEWmk+lYdZb4sxvRyJ2r6CUIr01Ww0dImZvPROVK2HCkh28/bT QEEqPzclfvF7s92DuJGWwj6I5dQVzgnZSRp+r1184oBgpxbw3JHU7i/YFM6Xh2zL0fGx P3/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BPGOEqLCI/pyxLisc1cvSgFB81pRVMt4YXa1HjVyZp3o92L5I9 SHeNq5rZ8/NrDPHqzUT1fazgX4lWqGmS9w8gx+U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdZzzWrZUQNzb1LV6+McFrHdOpfy5hsn5zKUfJzp9C4WU/bTDhTQeBPQuhuLc+pZ4Ln/NuON7BJJYr+5kfcOnao= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:21c6:: with SMTP id 6-v6mr747036qtz.171.1535257780537; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:29:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <66e2374b-f998-b132-410e-46c9089bb06b@gmail.com> <360212B1-8411-4ED0-877A-92E59070F518@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:29:29 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mikael Abrahamsson Cc: Sebastian Moeller , bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Bloat] Marvell 385 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 04:29:41 -0000 On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:32 AM Mikael Abrahamsson wrote= : > > On Thu, 23 Aug 2018, Sebastian Moeller wrote: > > > router should be able to handle at least the sold plan's bandwidth with > > its main CPU...) > > There is exactly one SoC on the market that does this, and that's Marvell > Armada 385, and it hasn't been very successful when it comes to ending up > in these kinds of devices. It's mostly ended up in NASes and devices such > as WRT1200AC, WRT1900ACS, WRT3200AC. I just pulled two of those out of my junk drawer. (bricked presently). It looks like we can't apply fq_codel for wifi to it (big binary blob), still. The firmware interface code is pretty clean though. https://github.com/kaloz/mwlwifi I rather liked the 385 chip myself, but wifi... can't fix, going back in junk drawer unless someone wants one. The expressobin is a Marvell Armada "3700LP (88F3720) dual core ARM Cortex A53 processor up to 1.2GHz" - how does that compare? I have plenty of ath10k and ath9k pcmcia cards.... > > > Sure doing less/ a half asses job is less costly than doing it > > right, but in the extreme not doing the job at all saves even more > > energy ;). And I am not sure we are barking up the right tree here, it > > is not that all home CPE are rigorously optimized for low power and > > energy saving... my gut feeling is that the only optimizing principle i= s > > cost for the manufacturer/OEM and that causes underpowered CPU that are > > packet-accerlerated"-doped to appear to be able to do their job. I migh= t > > be wrong though, as I have ISP internal numbers on this issue. > > The CPU power and RAM/flash has crept up a lot in the past 5 years becaus= e > other requirements in having the HGW support other applications than just > being a very simple NAT44+wifi router. > > Cost is definitely an optimization, and when you're expected to have a > price-to-customer including software in the 20-40 EUR/device range, then > the SoC can't cost much. There has also been a lot of vendor lock-in. > > But now speeds are creeping up even more, we're now seeing 2.5GE and 10GE > platforms, which require substantial CPU power to do forwarding. The Linu= x > kernel is now becoming the bottleneck in the forwarding, not even on a > 3GHz Intel CPU is it possible to forward even 10GE using the normal Linux > kernel path (my guess right now is that this is due to context switching > etc, not really CPU performance). > > Marvell has been the only one to really aim for lots of CPU performance i= n > their SoC, there might be others now going the same path but it's also a > downside if the CPU becomes bogged down with packet forwarding when it's > also expected to perform other tasks on behalf of the user (and ISP). > > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619