From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ej1-x62d.google.com (mail-ej1-x62d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E4183B29D for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 12:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id m20so3796590ejj.10 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 09:39:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Z21oS9+1s8l77iuj0EDfWHgRSEkzWKPenCGfG28nrpU=; b=VCsEOyAI9UQRZomo9kf0gYgMHqFaKlM47otzw7yJTMxrOF7OCH+H+BZQSBlVg2Agkp Z5yx3uq77q4OKXXeku/h6cV8ZlwYcuR6H6jBsMpHT5MAqUGgLrpNtK+DR77ZLkeQmNJ3 vj9OXnIUUfZyjF+cqjKdOfWDTlCFxhv97FjX3C/uaOaKaEWY9MuLSziSA5Nx8yIZygpV EY98B2H4rSZHAZJZWFQ9DqLSwQfK9ZrW5bv2cSJ3wZayi3w1RIPUtvg/eWnzeEsPjRi/ azOh42RMSj0a4rhqNNCk9NlVTOmS1mtuMPN31ZteRbFdobW6Li+vY8vIPB69uQYRIFf4 aDlg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Z21oS9+1s8l77iuj0EDfWHgRSEkzWKPenCGfG28nrpU=; b=MLZrRmeghZCamY2izlpqfJvljBE/87KmjwcFHabEP0gIOrr4rHsqV7PK6hhVj8jqW2 ISkxPsu6lWc90JMVOn6v4XrQH5Y0on0+KKtj1H3wTegRH3LMjYjx/6FMA2PhDyOuMHXh hkssNtMwvFZ5M942JK+opkFSCmnABWIRkIzxFIy8DPMh8rDwk8elEGfL4LytJoJKHC20 d77t5JjroUnvbK4+DeZr5WESC/JxPX4exSwqsCC9BwEYDZ9NNw6wtQqjkcAlFxGsTZW2 Xldd3loPN5yinXHUNyT5HAzLpr3X6nZBtx4yhq7UeifSRr8R5H8nT1UjxaAeI6xBNEE2 EhJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora8939j3KCjnSKMZvu7IwA74vHEwPe4ps4ywmwCg91JvkkIlK74b VhBt8U0YVUwsJl+v123hW8Z2yGCZvT3MRc58/V8RX4JtK7Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1v9/JeO/EX+Q9am/1nBzSBKis5pf7czwc1YGe47GH5ZPYiH89eNzuQKA0R+SaFr/9shbh3XisahNAoB6gENi+w= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:2245:b0:715:7c81:e39d with SMTP id 5-20020a170906224500b007157c81e39dmr5218059ejr.262.1655397580980; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 09:39:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <580DF947-1160-405C-9019-0A6CD8FC49A3@ifi.uio.no> In-Reply-To: <580DF947-1160-405C-9019-0A6CD8FC49A3@ifi.uio.no> From: Dave Taht Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 09:39:29 -0700 Message-ID: To: Michael Welzl Cc: bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] the future of tcp - train wreck or evolution? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 16:39:42 -0000 On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 10:48 PM Michael Welzl wrote: > > =E2=80=A6 but I=E2=80=99m excited about slide 15 ! > > "Heat, CO2, and radioactive waste are becoming measurable by-products of = TCP inefficiency > Fix TCP =3D> Save the World!=E2=80=9D QUIC contributes 3x(?) more to global warming than TCP in these cases. Btw, there's an interesting company attempting to put DCs underwater, perhaps attached to old oil rigs or under windfarms, looking for their first investment round, here, if you know anyone? https://www.subseacloud.com/ I was a big jock cousteau fan back in the day. Me, I've been mostly moving back to local applications, libreoffice is a real joy compared to google docs, and I figure local apps are far, far more power efficient than DCs are. > People don=E2=80=99t yet focus enough on this - and it=E2=80=99s not only= relevant in a data center context. See also: > > Michael Welzl: "Not a Trade-Off: On the Wi-Fi Energy Efficiency of Effect= ive Internet Congestion Control", IEEE/IFIP WONS 2022, virtual, 30 March - = 1 April 2022. > Preprint: https://folk.universitetetioslo.no/michawe/research/publication= s/wons2022_authors_version.pdf > > A couple of IETFs ago, I did sign up to present something along these lin= es at an ICCRG meeting, but I asked late and got squeezed into an =E2=80=9C= if time permits=E2=80=9D slot; some day in the future I=E2=80=99ll ask for = a =E2=80=9Cproper slot=E2=80=9D to elaborate on this. > > Cheers, > Michael > > > > On Jun 16, 2022, at 4:35 AM, Dave Taht via Bloat wrote: > > as seen in 2008. > > https://slideplayer.com/slide/5747321/ > > Regrettably all the answers on slide 13 are elided. It was how clearly pugs saw things back then that was remarkable. I've been really enjoying his twitter and blog ( https://akapugs.blog/) lately. Also on a recent thread he pointed out this really excellent computer history book: https://twitter.com/aka_pugs/status/1537229947042820096 History does not repeat itself, but it rhymes. > > > -- > FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_co= del/ > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > --=20 FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_code= l/ Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC