From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com (mail-ed1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BA763B29E for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 13:20:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id c6so10562653edn.8 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:20:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Hhe4duOxeZkYeZqnxYxcLfpoI8hdDN7DeB32M7Gnu84=; b=l3ab2/VdG823Xpl12WOPlFWqB0tJ3PM2ClWWlFN5AvahiEJphs0QpYOnmrlfB1EdxT 0B3oJR9ztiF3ItA+ec3ZInqZuBIT2/tSIQCgX7r7GT89RbSkWqeNlVDt640N2UDsCjNJ 9nPCqvpNqazNt4Lw7e0Y/cZm82rp0RmFqekfEF/4F86+EG1/QIbhK9OCoibgaHfKAiuC WJwf3VYEmciZgljlkkUQYJ0i4GyK9Iqq/ZvLv7d3fUW5i1fah4yFXd7ixGeW5CG5tAHe JrB8ta98BjPCwfto5MIJkAxF5ltn5w72G9ucBjyTXwVzBQ+seosIRbPeISiUM8O4eH1e ohFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Hhe4duOxeZkYeZqnxYxcLfpoI8hdDN7DeB32M7Gnu84=; b=kRHNvrm2AF0bc8JdawsnPIP83BrggYaF8VZnLJE5H52WCzHPOjUr3immktv/46dIDQ QjBFGvSKC8Vwin6f+K3ST+TOAcT3GK0de3w84QhvjRLXoROyDg4ibIfwfUTdNOf0OV0o 2lTFIYgxkFEq63+/fk2ulhj81eSOwGhsHoCx4eyUFVHgClx6ThKwwmc7MsACVpYCy25Z V3pPBO9x7yscdWkx1kuHX1gHT0p5KChAltg6F9/9K74ALEDDp7QIjcortQWyM2umOr5K cI392tdz/xrvrZgXdQoNebJiFvAMU+hrPS5xDNtwdx5RvwxKW9I0UgOlI3FrGUULz3Zr d+yQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531GZihlo0dTxb23ARXzBBSd++eYVDnK2A5i0Ekxex13vhNkYgN5 M9/skAMxLr/d32vjB3D2h17Pg/lvaSg7ph3YrS2yAdkLFv0GQQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwnRw2Mys1FT7LSlrbE2WYEd474Z4+uUvAnPjp2Cunfs+0KFFw7fL5Ow6gl35NYwdKHn/5abpFAj5Gs2jVVoAs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:298c:b0:41d:6b63:aa67 with SMTP id eq12-20020a056402298c00b0041d6b63aa67mr277660edb.42.1650043257524; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:20:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:20:45 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dave Collier-Brown Cc: bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] cloudflare consumer labels blog X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 17:20:58 -0000 thank you. I just ranted there also. Having tilted at that windmill today, I am going to go do some real work.... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D31041494 On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 9:55 AM Dave Collier-Brown wrote: > > I added this comment via Hacker News > > "Packet loss" is more interesting to nerds than consumers, who don't know= what it means. Arguably it needs a better name. > "Delays due to retransmission" is short enough to fit the label, and is w= hat a packet loss means _to the reader of the label_, rather than to me. > > --dave > > > On 4/15/22 10:47, Dave Taht wrote: > > "We believe that metrics beyond bandwidth such as latency and jitter > (the variance in latency) have grown appreciably in importance and > that should be reflected in policy going forward." > > - https://blog.cloudflare.com/breaking-down-broadband-nutrition-labels/ > > It also includes a number for "typical packet loss": .08% > > I miss when we could do a discussion in line with a blog, or via > email, in this case, they post urls to reddit, etc, at the end. > > Follow on Twitter > > David Tuber |@tubes__ > Mike Conlow |@mikeconlow > Cloudflare |Cloudflare > > > -- > David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify > System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest > dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com | -- Mark Twain > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER : This telecommunication, including= any and all attachments, contains confidential information intended only f= or the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, = copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confide= ntiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please noti= fy the sender immediately by return electronic mail and delete the message = from your inbox and deleted items folders. This telecommunication does not = constitute an express or implied agreement to conduct transactions by elect= ronic means, nor does it constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment = or an acceptance of a contract offer. Contract terms contained in this tele= communication are subject to legal review and the completion of formal docu= mentation and are not binding until same is confirmed in writing and has be= en signed by an authorized signatory. > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 I tried to build a better future, a few times: https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC