From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ie0-x22b.google.com (mail-ie0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46D5B21F19B for ; Tue, 21 May 2013 01:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f171.google.com with SMTP id e11so751410iej.2 for ; Tue, 21 May 2013 01:45:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=cyj260dXKinU4kU+NmFgA9GE99aPGflvii3uHB0AmY0=; b=vzFrBy8ak30Ysq1GAwMPEVlV9R9OPk0VjY5ucdfjWBhsi3OYdHIAk0XtKYh5HohtfC 8faLk8Fz6LIBGwpm/EyksX4tUGvVx4MBCNyDx6PwA2Y7KuDCruk2FqBMxQGK8FoB/J9/ rH3DEA+/0lZ0+VnCo6ZD3Ww1tkT7r1jfqLPSbfyRCn284Pp1gEc6OyPGHET3WVX7PZSE jmyPUjas9S8aCNA7Q9AkK5+MzhzRIGEMK0wdrElzlMI1brYqXMgeA5ki658ztv5P7gb1 O2zFEtjrOw0pvSLih+d2tNHinznkONgifxlAm9secl2b3wnJIhY/bsjl0HY3+WbTPOp1 mmYQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.93.41 with SMTP id cr9mr882619igb.27.1369125942399; Tue, 21 May 2013 01:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.9.114 with HTTP; Tue, 21 May 2013 01:45:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <21501.1367934156@sandelman.ca> References: <21501.1367934156@sandelman.ca> Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 01:45:42 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: Michael Richardson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2e0f5773199c04dd367903 Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] a request I made to ISOC and IETF TSV AD X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 08:45:43 -0000 --047d7b2e0f5773199c04dd367903 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 6:42 AM, Michael Richardson wrote= : > > this is a FYI. > > ISOC says they are full for 2013. If someone can think of another > entity to coordinate, and take some of the *outreach* load off > of JG, DT, and friends, name it.. > I would like to find that entity or person(s) for sure! I'm *done* the european tour as of today and want nothing more than to get back to california and back on coding up a ton more useful stuff (like fixing wifi and updating the ns2/ns3 models, getting better statistics, analyzing the cablelabs work, working on a pfifo_fast replacement etc) While I enjoyed giving all the talks I just did, getting the word out in front of a wide variety of audiences, meeting cool people everywhere, and figuring out new ways to explain this stuff in response to questions... and a lot of that got filmed... http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki/Bloat-videos It seemed to be really difficult to get anywhere with a new audience in 40 minutes or less. But in doing that and coping with the questions, I have thought up a few more graphical ways of getting the points across in some future world tour (APAC?) that *given some time with a decent artist* might compress down the ideas a little. The longer, private talks I had all over europe were pretty good - I'm seriously encouraged by the response from various industries... ... but I'd really like to go back to hacking for a while. > > On May 6, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Michael Richardson > wrote: > > Welcome to the IESG, Spencer. > > > > I am putting my hat on as . > > Novavision is a boutique business ISP in Montreal, Quebec has fiber in = a > > number of industrial parks. I'm the network architect and director of > R&D. > > We have serious bufferbloat issues that prevent us from deploying the > > kind of service we want. In many cases I control both ends of the > > layer-3, and I could deploy whatever I want. If only I could train the > > sales engineers of my vendors... > > > Awhile ago I suggested to Dan York that ISOC should consider adding > > bufferbloat to it's Deploy360-ish efforts. A key thing for me around > > bufferbloat is: > > a) convincing companies that it's real. A video hosted by > > Vint or Bob Kahn, aimed at semi-technical CTOs would help. > > > > b) having convinced them that it's real, I need to find out what > > they are doing about it, and what work arounds they might have. > > > > I suggest a well curated wiki for (b), with encouragement for > > vendors to link directly to their "knowledge bases", etc. > > > > c) some point of contact for bufferbloat issues... > > This would have to start with some kind of IETF led attempt to > > actually find out who at various companies might be in charge > > of figuring who is in charge of figuring out what the contact would > > be. > > > > Some small vendor specific background. Novavision is a Juniper partner= . > > I explained that I couldn't buy a product until I had some clear > > statements about bufferbloat plans from the sales engineer. I tried t= o > get > > the SE some contacts... I used various contacts I had @juniper.net, but > > they came up blank. They didn't know how to address this question > > either. I think that this is a industry wide problem. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > --=20 Dave T=E4ht Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html --047d7b2e0f5773199c04dd367903 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 6:42 AM, Michael = Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca> wrote:

this is a FYI.

ISOC says they are full for 2013. =A0If someone can think of another
entity to coordinate, and take some of the *outreach* load off
of JG, DT, and friends, name it..

I would like to = find that entity or person(s) for sure!

I'm *done* the european= tour as of today and want nothing more than to get back to california and = back on coding up a ton more useful stuff (like fixing wifi and updating th= e ns2/ns3 models, getting better statistics, analyzing the cablelabs work, = working on a pfifo_fast replacement etc)

While I enjoyed giving all the talks I just did, getting the word out i= n front of a wide variety of audiences, meeting cool people everywhere, and= figuring out new ways to explain this stuff in response to questions... an= d a lot of that got filmed...

http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki/Bloat-videos
It seemed to be really difficult to get anywhere with a new audience in 40= minutes or less.

But in doing that and coping with the questions, I have thought up a fe= w more=20 graphical ways of getting the points across in some future world tour (APAC= ?) that *given some time with a decent artist* might compress down the idea= s a little.

The longer, private talks I had all over europe were pre= tty good - I'm seriously encouraged by the response from various indust= ries...

... but I'd really like to go back to hacking for a while.

=

=A0

On May 6, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:
> Welcome to the IESG, Spencer.
>
> I am putting my <operator> hat on as <mcr@novavision.ca>.
> Novavision is a boutique business ISP in Montreal, Quebec has fiber in= a
> number of industrial parks. =A0I'm the network architect and direc= tor of R&D.
> We have serious bufferbloat issues that prevent us from deploying the<= br> > kind of service we want. =A0In many cases I control both ends of the > layer-3, and I could deploy whatever I want. =A0If only I could train = the
> sales engineers of my vendors...

> Awhile ago I suggested to Dan York that ISOC should consider adding > bufferbloat to it's Deploy360-ish efforts. =A0A key thing for me a= round
> bufferbloat is:
> =A0a) convincing companies that it's real. =A0A video hosted by > =A0 =A0 Vint or Bob Kahn, aimed at semi-technical CTOs would help.
>
> =A0b) having convinced them that it's real, I need to find out wha= t
> =A0 =A0 they are doing about it, and what work arounds they might have= .
>
> =A0 =A0 I suggest a well curated wiki for (b), with encouragement for<= br> > =A0 =A0 vendors to link directly to their "knowledge bases",= etc.
>
> =A0c) some point of contact for bufferbloat issues...
> =A0 =A0 This would have to start with some kind of IETF led attempt to=
> =A0 =A0 actually find out who at various companies might be in charge<= br> > =A0 =A0 of figuring who is in charge of figuring out what the contact = would
> =A0 =A0 be.
>
> Some small vendor specific background. =A0Novavision is a Juniper part= ner.
> I explained that I couldn't buy a product until I had some clear > statements about bufferbloat plans from the sales engineer. =A0 I trie= d to get
> the SE some contacts... I used various contacts I had @juniper.net, but
> they came up blank. =A0 They didn't know how to address this quest= ion
> either. =A0 I think that this is a industry wide problem.
>

_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net<= /a>
= https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat



--
Dave T=E4ht

Fixi= ng bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.ht= ml=20 --047d7b2e0f5773199c04dd367903--