From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pj1-x102f.google.com (mail-pj1-x102f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3C9B3B29D for ; Sat, 5 Aug 2023 15:54:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x102f.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-26825239890so2292718a91.0 for ; Sat, 05 Aug 2023 12:54:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1691265283; x=1691870083; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=wXARuaqQR3Yqfsv5i2UGeXPpGfIfw/APofoFHjB/OoI=; b=UTjZD83w7dqWtELDSGU4/Gzf6V/5eZbB3sabPqNqGn0jyuNCINY5ts166bYeuwsBx0 eOmL9fpsf9I+wu0azK4xfHElbKLpL+eQp7z+asfiiyfBZSfW3RfD7dUytRInxgLVGY25 UKalTTJFFuYx6ReESySQEEjLHeJTrFnW0Axt4jwBKTD6K1yNfkaZEJbNNTWCIoKQutj6 tFWKrfDDXsMmQRvvatJbBbwBcJMvvYEh1/EmDA2AEe3XCTiezjW6hgmo0BJoaZnJGcBJ XplG/P8HTA0Xjg6Aba+9KaW+ID9A6RSllxkx+Ebdox2kF32R3EC/QwxrUvlP5HJBTa9t zMCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1691265283; x=1691870083; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wXARuaqQR3Yqfsv5i2UGeXPpGfIfw/APofoFHjB/OoI=; b=Di3Rw6a3Ok8mZbDuDlgSV2N6pYNSutdY8O2BJqbscxJ+hv6zYlF/f4ghcsDYfnjj2s 8WlgP0OZmULt0M/Cjl5maQGTmnapYWHVkcpwV2T5k6AMzJcnlZluQSLgPCrPnPITjR4W TDhnTjPeuy2T6CslyeZJy//kNPYqO2CY06194Jw9TPfdrod6rPXDdKC6CrEbQjuKsj3M l4xJoxl8hnhUSCBs5gRWSIYKlSgGi0Tx5N/lCjeoXPXLNGdQrJtY3T+U2P3r1VLcdWdU x2qCwnCRFUBRN41y4DcemkPzvPM0myOaU3U+ULKM8X7VKmXkjFicbtHJ2vTK1lmltT6F yb/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyNNVM7RMsiWBPGYgsAzisUo4ipbcu4ICuEnKtpOqm10yo8rSuo dcL9TxaUx12TUG44ansqnoibTI2lMZxDmiH+t9580DVplwQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFveBqNzAWuzo/zdS9fYP17Ez7AtPX6/xb8TPd1TI/uGWkrQyqT0gi8t3Ia8k4gcQ7N1qOZBC15sDZnbza40A8= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:a792:b0:268:1f0a:9f12 with SMTP id f18-20020a17090aa79200b002681f0a9f12mr5121800pjq.29.1691265283259; Sat, 05 Aug 2023 12:54:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230805123006.2e0fb20c@hermes.local> In-Reply-To: <20230805123006.2e0fb20c@hermes.local> From: Dave Taht Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2023 12:54:31 -0700 Message-ID: To: Stephen Hemminger Cc: Sean DuBois via Bloat , Sean DuBois Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] Easiest/most effective way to test software against adverse networks? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2023 19:54:44 -0000 Dear Stephen: Google gcc is a hybrid delay/loss webrtc protocol that is part of most browsers today, and quite a few SFUs. It has been around since 2012 or so. An RFC for it was started, here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-gcc-02 But as it grew to dominate the market, the source code(s) for it became the best reference, and the effort to standardize, abandoned. It is, IMHO, more an IH, than NIH. That said, an awful lot of videoconferencing takes place over more proprietary implementations of congestion control today, and only the authors know how it works. On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 12:30=E2=80=AFPM Stephen Hemminger via Bloat wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 13:35:40 -0400 > Sean DuBois via Bloat wrote: > > > I am working on improving Pion's Google Congestion Control algorithm > > https://github.com/pion/interceptor/tree/master/pkg/gcc. As I start to = use > > it in more real world networks I find flaws. > > > > How are people testing software today? Is 'Traffic Control' the best op= tion? > > > Netem works but there are artifacts from the emulation. > > But my view on congestion control is that this sounds like Google > doing NIH reinvention. Happens when you hire a lot of smart people > > "Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it" > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbxmoBr4cBKg Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos