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From: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
To: Kathleen Nichols <nichols@pollere.com>
Cc: bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Bloat] when does the CoDel part of fq_codel help in the real world?
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 11:25:28 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAA93jw5UtRpyRwaDb8tL8=bjh1ecwe6KaBMmpJP4vWXKcZ4A2w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <daaa4269-19e5-f92d-38a4-efea17c536f3@pollere.com>

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 10:44 AM Kathleen Nichols <nichols@pollere.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have been kind of blown away by this discussion. Jim Gettys kind of
> kicked off the current wave of dealing with full queues, dubbing it
> "bufferbloat". He wanted to write up how it happened so that people
> could start on a solution and I was enlisted to get an article written.
> We tried to draw on the accumulated knowledge of decades and use a
> context of What Jim Saw. I think the article offers some insight on
> queues (perhaps I'm biased as a co-author, but I'm not claiming any
> original insights just putting it together)
> https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2071893
>
> Further, in our first writing about CoDel, Van insisted on getting a
> good explanation of queues and how things go wrong. I think the figures
> and the explanation of how buffers are meant to be shock absorbers are
> very useful (yes, bias again, but I'm not saying you have to agree about
> CoDel's efficacy, just about how queues happen and why we need some
> buffer). https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2209336
>
> It's just kind of weird since Jim's evangelism is at the root of this
> list (and Dave's picking up the torch of course). Reading is a lost art.

The working title of my PHD thesis is "Sanely shedding load", which, while
our work to date has made a dent on it, is a broader question, that also applies
to people and how we manage load...

... las, for example, I'm at least 20 messages behind on these lists
this week so far,
and I figure that thesis will never complete until I learn how to
write in passive voice.

I think the two pieces above, this list, evangelism, and working
results has made an
enormous dent in how computer scientists and engineers think about
things over the
last 7 years, and it will continue to percolate through academia and
elsewhere to good effect.

And your and jim's paper has 389 cites now:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=bufferbloat&btnG=&oq=

I know, sadly, though, that my opinion about how much we've changed
the world, has more than a bit of confirmation bias in it.

I loved what uber did (https://eng.uber.com/qalm/)

I'd certainly love to see kleinrock taught not just in comp sci and
engineering, but in business and government,
as I just spent 3 hours at the DMV that I wish I didn't need to spend,
and a day where I could hit dice.com for
"queue theory" and come up with hundreds of hits across all
professions... rather than 0.

>
>         Kathie
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat



-- 

Dave Täht
CTO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-831-205-9740

  reply	other threads:[~2018-11-27 19:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 102+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-11-26 19:08 Pete Heist
2018-11-26 19:28 ` Neal Cardwell
2018-11-27 20:42   ` Dave Taht
2018-11-27 20:54     ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2018-11-27 21:00       ` Dave Taht
2018-11-27 21:05         ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2018-11-26 21:29 ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-27  9:24   ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-27 10:26     ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2018-11-27 10:29       ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-27 10:35         ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2018-11-27 10:40           ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-27 10:50             ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2018-11-27 11:01               ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-27 11:21                 ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2018-11-27 12:17                   ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-27 13:37                     ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-27 13:49                       ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2018-11-27 14:07                         ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-27 14:18                           ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2018-11-27 18:44                           ` Kathleen Nichols
2018-11-27 19:25                             ` Dave Taht [this message]
2018-11-27 21:57                             ` Roland Bless
2018-11-27 11:53                 ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2018-11-27 11:58                   ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-27 12:22                     ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2018-11-27 11:06               ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-27 11:07               ` Michael Welzl
2018-11-29  7:35               ` Dave Taht
2018-11-29 18:43                 ` Stephen Hemminger
2018-11-29 19:08                   ` Dave Taht
2018-11-30  5:51                   ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2018-11-30 19:02                     ` Dave Taht
2018-11-30 19:58                     ` Stephen Hemminger
2018-11-27 11:04             ` Michael Welzl
2018-11-27 12:48               ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2018-11-27 11:40             ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2018-11-27 11:43               ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2018-11-29  7:39               ` Dave Taht
2018-11-29  7:45                 ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-29  7:54                   ` Dave Taht
2018-11-29  8:09                     ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-29 13:49                   ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2018-11-29  8:41                 ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2018-11-29  7:33       ` Dave Taht
2018-11-29  8:13         ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2018-11-29 10:00         ` Pete Heist
2018-11-29 16:09       ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-29 17:07         ` Mario Hock
2018-11-29 22:30           ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-30  9:55             ` Mario Hock
2018-11-30 10:32               ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-30 11:04                 ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-30 11:53                   ` jf
2018-12-03  9:42                   ` Mario Hock
2018-11-27 11:52     ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2018-11-28  3:37       ` [Bloat] AFD Dave Taht
2018-11-27 20:58     ` [Bloat] when does the CoDel part of fq_codel help in the real world? Dave Taht
2018-11-27 22:19       ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-27 22:30         ` Roland Bless
2018-11-27 23:17           ` Dave Taht
2018-11-28  3:47             ` Kathleen Nichols
2018-11-28  9:56       ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-28 10:40         ` Dave Taht
2018-11-28 10:48           ` Luca Muscariello
2018-11-28 12:10             ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2018-11-29  7:22               ` Dave Taht
2018-11-29  7:20             ` Dave Taht
2018-11-27 20:50   ` Dave Taht
2018-11-26 21:56 ` Michael Welzl
2018-11-26 22:13   ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2018-11-27  8:54     ` Pete Heist
2018-11-27  9:31       ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-27 13:19       ` Michael Richardson
2018-11-27 18:59         ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-27 20:10   ` Dave Taht
2018-11-27 21:17     ` Michael Welzl
2018-11-27 21:20       ` Michael Welzl
2018-11-29  7:11         ` Dave Taht
2018-11-29  7:28           ` [Bloat] incremental deployment, transport and L4S (Re: when does the CoDel part of fq_codel help in the real world?) Mikael Abrahamsson
2018-11-29  7:36             ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-29  7:46               ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2018-11-29  8:08                 ` Michael Welzl
2018-11-29 10:30                   ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-29 12:06                     ` Michael Welzl
2018-11-29 12:52                       ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-30  7:54                         ` Michael Welzl
2019-02-03 18:20                           ` Dave Taht
2018-11-29 12:12                   ` Michael Welzl
2018-11-29 12:56                     ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-29 13:30                       ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2018-11-29 23:27                         ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-30  6:01                           ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2018-11-29 14:06                     ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2018-11-29  8:09                 ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-29  8:19                   ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2018-11-29  8:34                     ` Jonathan Morton
2018-11-29 10:15                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2018-11-29 10:53                   ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2018-11-30  4:54               ` Dave Taht
2018-11-28  2:04     ` [Bloat] when does the CoDel part of fq_codel help in the real world? Pete Heist
2018-11-28  3:52       ` Dave Taht

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