From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk1-x72b.google.com (mail-qk1-x72b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CA793BA8E for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 14:25:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72b.google.com with SMTP id m5so15284456qka.9 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 11:25:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0dHjhVtB1VE5c6ycDCou+3dz3J5LSlqS6B+HAHyHgJg=; b=D5ERveNkia7rucwvWNwZPMSYaHv4OeoXYi2eEFZHjpf/Gj4JEibzp2HWwWUt4eIRtB dzTT1d4jwwM0BkSmhfat7oazLwXiClfiFrtdPAJMfuG2kmFlbTeLyCR2FK4lu1+H3fw1 9YD+qvew5JIePWJeixk5c1cm557VKGRVMoCGjEGJ1W+ZUOhgkqw3dEXw9Z3Bce32eseb lBCmbhFiezNJJYOHnC6VGBoi0dJxmBOK8nsHpDnBYUTTX/w0Nv9OPvF66BZbur8nTGka Qa4YwCk/lPFT4Gzr0Hx258oVjBiKJvfkpXRsfLdFf0mWodrc0d6+EFRjRAEXb3rsqw4K /Lyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0dHjhVtB1VE5c6ycDCou+3dz3J5LSlqS6B+HAHyHgJg=; b=fj+ZfcDhbVg2Ows0BsKEL2NJvFY3GS6qm74fzc3f1TuKCXpUHX9HUlJtZ5v2DINnWq FwGEqee54+AjiCjrkp8zjWp+gej5CIIK1a47diScGS2Z7DmTASgzfMhUCLlmM1lZqdvs YTIz4112pg9qNOwiOlm9drVe+ykfsZhPRGKCbhOCzx/px3VoOSpkFDVCYyh45peaOVw/ ESWrTZ2YekfPCZilPConqbBM38P0GIsDfK+475K6KW9C+SGOXGHQ3eEKzdjweILbduHn nglovJ6eF/Q1IpIEEW+d88FDOw2VIPOyZX5NO2+v1BrV6lU2hGio5/iyFq0A6QpiKBZi VZ/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZNASQuIKFei4Q+HyutDWWNZnS4r0gouPzlfB0FuzaIHwV1sO69 jWCEv1cWlbmC7wjLALJqM2Vf8x2ZIAKDydLLfiG1fNw8 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/Ud1kbtxMRsjSzR9/aVaov2brznqJgYPTKNYbF8TA32RXxZDqtc2miOMsdKFPOxBxUDitDaoA4yNbdW71iw2y4= X-Received: by 2002:a37:18d5:: with SMTP id 82mr30280581qky.65.1543346740504; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 11:25:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <65EAC6C1-4688-46B6-A575-A6C7F2C066C5@heistp.net> <86b16a95-e47d-896b-9d43-69c65c52afc7@kit.edu> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 11:25:28 -0800 Message-ID: To: Kathleen Nichols Cc: bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] when does the CoDel part of fq_codel help in the real world? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 19:25:41 -0000 On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 10:44 AM Kathleen Nichols wro= te: > > > I have been kind of blown away by this discussion. Jim Gettys kind of > kicked off the current wave of dealing with full queues, dubbing it > "bufferbloat". He wanted to write up how it happened so that people > could start on a solution and I was enlisted to get an article written. > We tried to draw on the accumulated knowledge of decades and use a > context of What Jim Saw. I think the article offers some insight on > queues (perhaps I'm biased as a co-author, but I'm not claiming any > original insights just putting it together) > https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3D2071893 > > Further, in our first writing about CoDel, Van insisted on getting a > good explanation of queues and how things go wrong. I think the figures > and the explanation of how buffers are meant to be shock absorbers are > very useful (yes, bias again, but I'm not saying you have to agree about > CoDel's efficacy, just about how queues happen and why we need some > buffer). https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3D2209336 > > It's just kind of weird since Jim's evangelism is at the root of this > list (and Dave's picking up the torch of course). Reading is a lost art. The working title of my PHD thesis is "Sanely shedding load", which, while our work to date has made a dent on it, is a broader question, that also ap= plies to people and how we manage load... ... las, for example, I'm at least 20 messages behind on these lists this week so far, and I figure that thesis will never complete until I learn how to write in passive voice. I think the two pieces above, this list, evangelism, and working results has made an enormous dent in how computer scientists and engineers think about things over the last 7 years, and it will continue to percolate through academia and elsewhere to good effect. And your and jim's paper has 389 cites now: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=3Den&as_sdt=3D0%2C5&q=3Dbufferbloat&b= tnG=3D&oq=3D I know, sadly, though, that my opinion about how much we've changed the world, has more than a bit of confirmation bias in it. I loved what uber did (https://eng.uber.com/qalm/) I'd certainly love to see kleinrock taught not just in comp sci and engineering, but in business and government, as I just spent 3 hours at the DMV that I wish I didn't need to spend, and a day where I could hit dice.com for "queue theory" and come up with hundreds of hits across all professions... rather than 0. > > Kathie > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-205-9740