From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-il1-x136.google.com (mail-il1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67E923B29D for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2020 11:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-il1-x136.google.com with SMTP id y2so15830363ilp.7 for ; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 08:43:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dNlyQYjxvvBAUmQ2MyYee6CXde/aOcVH0KjjwzkSW6A=; b=AZgnhd+X3SS1dWttTvkvzqVlasd4vPOTP5I3wFbVb+4N/VXUGT3srD7R7qG3Yv8yL2 VA1ZPKhiPqLkiXOxR8aDT/jGd5ZSuguSH9uLmutj8idN45TSXsT3OFVIvD1HiZX3OjUS F8uYyhsQFICVGyQhDmE59II+lfbT1TL9LsK/fG7icF48cH7Apj4ZDHfUNdR9Y22hmsaV UB8dTZzjBbRnVbYUoKKPLIh3/QoCKiLwxMPJ6QVNtTdewFqWr04GlR4vHjlY1B4rhH26 pCdvUlvu2xlceY0xCjVHf3tqElpencHhPQ82r7l4Ugwacp8W2N2+CjUwcPA9eQo78AE8 1tXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dNlyQYjxvvBAUmQ2MyYee6CXde/aOcVH0KjjwzkSW6A=; b=Dj68O0Hv+vI2vxyx56c6VbZ5aaEUlWCDBbwmbE99jn49OIDpn7obCPPWrnml8ilpRr XtAbf6feWxoE7dP5R0UBs7RXBtBtdsxnM9woz1vBUa8vMPzv+uIP8newFXn+Rb0JZnG9 +KU2kugBqTpDeqE5Z4EXPoeEWBO5KCKREqFkgccOg0DYiKq5CJwnnQPpYGUpgjLtijU7 J+Zt84a+ADFc16fcwmThU7hHCkRkcpAy8QNQCH7xYul4Rh/khjMh9KOSGX8yxCVrO8lb VQssl0GyvZoeOngjWw+iv7hxhS9L/DvKM13vbAef6CdfaIZq2prmt+6l50MjZ+pIxKsy 88jQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532sxNbDHSPqCG4Hr/7NfsEKIRfLzMElzps1d1C51VwZ+sYCRJb/ 1IUhJCcHL+wFZQ7n76XTrOICNaGDbbfQJoSHyKM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxCFHFjySeNXlk5VltOcSZ90UhqwLrVhrm3sjCUjT5eSIrgBgR630D1fbMoyOzXDtF8edluZU7zvMOSoOS0kT0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:cd4:: with SMTP id c20mr25065447ilj.0.1599579795954; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87k0x6os8t.fsf@toke.dk> <1916fe37-04f5-137b-0ec5-a82fa9c3898e@indexexchange.com> <727bcf44-e3b5-f6ff-3063-e8b080dfb6e1@rogers.com> In-Reply-To: <727bcf44-e3b5-f6ff-3063-e8b080dfb6e1@rogers.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 08:43:04 -0700 Message-ID: To: David Collier-Brown Cc: bloat , Ken Rice , Anthony Minessale II Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] How about a topical LWN article on demonstrating the real-world goodness of CAKE? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 15:43:16 -0000 Dear David: I think freeswitch still has a public sip echo server which might be a better test than skype? I tend to think there is a lot of bloat on the endpoints nowadays because it "helps" on not having to deal with jitter that the bloat on the rest of the internet induces. But 1sec you got on skype in your test below is NUTS. I hacked a bit on BBB earlier this year to get their number down to sanity. I find endless videoconferencing nowadays to be really tiring and frustrating. Am I alone in this? I have to go outside and scream after two hours. Log off entirely after 4. On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 10:20 AM David Collier-Brown w= rote: > > Just FYI, I did two tests today, in my Copious Spare Time > > a DSLReports speed test using an IQrouter, and > a Skype "tap" test, with and without the de-bloated router > > The router did exactly what I expected: it vaporized the bloat-induced de= lay provided by Rogers. > > My previous bloat-induced lag was between 700 and 900 milliseconds under = load, and an unimpressive 240 milliseconds when idle. With a de-bloated ro= uter, lag was 40 milliseconds maximum, whether idle or loaded, and about 30= millisecond minimum, or a 3500 km round-trip, appropriate for the distance= s to the measurements points. By comparison, Rodger-Dogers was giving me la= g times more appropriate for a test to Ankara, Turkey. > > The tap test was interesting, but less helpful. I connected to 1-909-390-= 0003, which is an instant-echo server, used to test voice telephones. If yo= u connect to it and say something, it will echo it back to you. If you tap = on your microphone, it's fairly easy to get an idea of how much delay there= is. > > Alas, with and without bufferbloat mitigation, it took about a second ech= o back the tap, so it's not the kind of instantly-obvious success test I'm = searching for, to demonstrate the goodness of CAKE to my grandmother (;-)) > > --dave > > -- > David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify > System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest > davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain --=20 "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman dave@taht.net CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729