From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-x232.google.com (mail-ob0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE8BE21F249 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2014 02:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f178.google.com with SMTP id wn1so10317526obc.9 for ; Tue, 01 Jul 2014 02:06:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=H1K0sTXUrAHeTDeAAJWhhVLz+7j80WRwU0RGyAmZJSE=; b=ayjJ27RnDVc6BN8U5x7cnP45fu51AgWMljxRVyxiRvz4QrEcR78+MlfxVe5s0EQeqQ ykAgQCIOSxIthRb7QHHfY+36fV1wV0cP7YL4wnkk1asTl0T2CtkDm+/jt+4rh9Q9prga TgCaCxZMJHkBPDoUzh6sNavqb25/KqJrb4MmBvm6+ekaVQJPoyurOwwsvE5QNOsayvBk wA7XGV6KXlLCKm4kPD/cnPFjhsAIXdDqvGorKnk2BsvvGf0p7tl8BGJjRGWP9ul3VAgS e48nf0y3LIVqhgqf+jUP1YUJsFs8P21CNS+ii8DUdmhjVcfiQcr1ZbyJCS6Pe6mhcZXE +aJQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.16.72 with SMTP id e8mr41501588oed.11.1404205572965; Tue, 01 Jul 2014 02:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.129.70 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Jul 2014 02:06:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140701084001.GA27192@sesse.net> References: <20140701084001.GA27192@sesse.net> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 02:06:12 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: "Steinar H. Gunderson" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] viability of the data center in the internet of the future X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2014 09:06:14 -0000 On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 1:40 AM, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: > On Tue, Jul 01, 2014 at 01:37:23AM -0700, Dave Taht wrote: >> I >> liked web proxies, they were often capable of reducing traffic by 10s >> of percentage points, reduce latency enormously for lossy or satellite >> links, and were frequently used by large organizations (like schools) >> to manage content. > > By =E2=80=9Cmanage=E2=80=9D I assume you mean =E2=80=9Ccensor=E2=80=9D, r= ight? I do (sometimes) strive to be politically correct. Have you done a google search with "safesearch" off lately? Try it for a day. At work. Frankly safesearch and adblockplus are the only two things keeping the web tolerable for me, and I used to use privoxy and various other services in conjunction with squid to keep javacript out, and banner ads under control for all users on sites located far away from the "normal" internet with limited bandwidth. Places like, um, New Zealand. So, I mostly meant 'manage'. I am certainly well aware that web proxies are frequently used to enforce various forms of censorship. Quite a few are transparent proxies, which I think is wrong. Having an explicit proxy assignment (as supported in the protocol), makes for effective use of split tcp, and you can turn it off if you don't like it. What I wish to 'censor' on my own networks is offensive content, which mostly includes intrusive advertising! - the savings in bandwidth and on load time are enormous on killing that alone. Certainly I'd like a world where users had that blocked by default on clients, but we'd have to get bitcoin deployed first... I can't defend 'censorship' as in blocking access to certain words, and I do worry about the fact we've outsourced even as much as safesearch to the Ministry of Information. But I can certainly defend 'the local network owner''s ability to manage their bandwidth more appropriately, and regret that that world is going away. polipo, for example, generally does a great job of speeding up web access over wifi - eliminating the dns lookups and utilizing http 1.1 pipeline and having a short local rtt can make a real difference. > > (I find it questionable that we are teaching our children from the very > beginning of their education that it is OK to censor the Internet arbitra= rily.) Got any kids? > /* Steinar */ > -- > Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/ > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht NSFW: https://w2.eff.org/Censorship/Internet_censorship_bills/russell_0296_= indecent.article