From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt0-x235.google.com (mail-qt0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4353A3B2A4 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 17:27:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-qt0-x235.google.com with SMTP id i40so19127573qti.8 for ; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 14:27:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZWmv/EvhCdV0vMX8yvwmmjzbQUo6HVIuR0nvqqkbFCo=; b=EZw73YbEm7nLA5imQv7RbkYE288UzBy/VvAXz89u5JtPBaz6sD+7leIhxMqkfEq2tz ApDglwS+PU2yXgxt+kJyi4CC6kA5LMX89upZ7rycLKYhV/04po5nQ+H/TpzZFYKhbz21 dzU1ePMFSjOB32H8js165wilSBCC1oGkZVKjYtE2uXcR52/zaatYbq7IGZJEzwsP26P6 Bkoj/N3ka5+vd5sqYUKzR5ZUEWEdJzbtDmAFJAuQ3n8B5jUNwhz1X9cT/27B0ryj2Fmj kH7L0QUwBLDcaCDstRIbRLIwgciM+ZLGPEauOBIvhXA8lwbyc+1Y1uL2K+8XIp2ckuqj dwTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZWmv/EvhCdV0vMX8yvwmmjzbQUo6HVIuR0nvqqkbFCo=; b=QsUXdo+ytAexrI5CVdPSBhLvsXK+qb76O8zK7m9XFwsk578hyuu8bxtxmmgGR7B16M /l9hXHj6taJCUsOJxyIXN36Bk96PkvDCnSHtRYFRVrfF1Trrwlc6/PibP7DNDT3CbWBy JigvlnXYBuMLxoIZ5aDNaBIJ1z8psb0CPGPK+NpuNCaYIEImQCNbc8yZy8+JggqOMcHT ilcnAyjnglpQNPMZeFkWN6qbjxTBE7uLyBjLYn09LMihF47j+PqYvlzP1E0h9sYzxr38 jqro8wRLXOGmg/7bbvyVALXR735YDkJNIHXqs/PlqeV/UM9L+oj4sbnCPH284uvpa4T8 e/Eg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mL5083cYvG8YoL9DSO+WpcbAayJK0Pvq6W7kTzXkpYHMNSlWzSm f3D31BkpC31R9kO063g5ZkLc3E9y+qKtbrO57tE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYPfW94eZftARLKBHMWd1dbo9fAU/AzblcTY4DfUq2XvSOKfRBQZmXWzTpkxxBEA/ukpJRbHDbwxoQOpbDxuc8= X-Received: by 10.200.39.148 with SMTP id w20mr20054145qtw.178.1512340074755; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 14:27:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.193.93 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 14:27:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <336A8DFB-1748-4024-A290-61393695CB55@gmx.de> References: <7B92DF4D-B6B5-4A64-9E10-119DCA2D4A6F@ifi.uio.no> <1512037480.19682.10.camel@gmail.com> <6b494910-1373-afb0-5b93-99b725391fb3@gmail.com> <87wp2638yo.fsf@toke.dk> <87tvxa36sn.fsf@toke.dk> <87po7ygxai.fsf@nemesis.taht.net> <87shcui3ni.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87shcs9k0v.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87po7vud6q.wl-jch@irif.fr> <87bmjftwn3.wl-jch@irif.fr> <336A8DFB-1748-4024-A290-61393695CB55@gmx.de> From: Dave Taht Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 14:27:53 -0800 Message-ID: To: Sebastian Moeller Cc: bloat , Juliusz Chroboczek , Ryan Mounce Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] benefits of ack filtering X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2017 22:27:55 -0000 On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Sebastian Moeller wrote: > > > On December 3, 2017 8:54:40 PM GMT+01:00, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: >>> Many would kill for a 10:1 DOCSIS connection. 50:1 is not rare, and I >>> have personally been subscribed to a near 100:1 service. >> >>Some people should not be allowed to design networks. The upstream/downstream problem over long distances has been problematic for dsl (phone line) and cable (coax) deployments. The head-ends have much greater control over the signal strengths than the (usually much cheaper) Gpon fiber is also commonly sold in 1Gbit/100Mbit modes. Testing on a GPON network showed about 80ms worth of buffering in the ONT - which we can get rid of entirely, in c= ake. >>> The DOCSIS shaper deals with ethernet frames so 58 / 1518 bytes. >> >>Could you please point me to details of the DOCSIS shaper? > > the relevant section from the Docsis standard (http://www.cablelabs.com/s= pecification/docsis-3-0-mac-and-upper-layer-protocols-interface-specificati= on/): > > "C.2.2.7.2 Maximum Sustained Traffic Rate 632 This parameter is the rate = parameter R of a token-bucket-based rate limit for packets. R is expressed = in bits per second, and MUST take into account all MAC frame data PDU of th= e Service Flow from the byte following the MAC header HCS to the end of the= CRC, including every PDU in the case of a Concatenated MAC Frame. This par= ameter is applied after Payload Header Suppression; it does not include the= bytes suppressed for PHS. The number of bytes forwarded (in bytes) is limi= ted during any time interval T by Max(T), as described in the expression: M= ax(T) =3D T * (R / 8) + B, (1) where the parameter B (in bytes) is the Maxi= mum Traffic Burst Configuration Setting (refer to Annex C.2.2.7.3). NOTE: T= his parameter does not limit the instantaneous rate of the Service Flow. Th= e specific algorithm for enforcing this parameter is not mandated here. Any= implementation which satisfies the above equation is conformant. In partic= ular, the granularity of enforcement and the minimum implemented value of t= his parameter are vendor specific. The CMTS SHOULD support a granularity of= at most 100 kbps. The CM SHOULD support a granularity of at most 100 kbps.= NOTE: If this parameter is omitted or set to zero, then there is no explic= itly-enforced traffic rate maximum. This field specifies only a bound, not = a guarantee that this rate is available." > > So in essence DOCSIS users need to only account for 18 Bytes of ethernet = overhead in both ingress and egress directions under non-congested conditio= ns. Also, cake, as a deficit mode shaper, it is the opposite of how htb functions in terms of bursts. TB tries to make up for bandwidth you should have, verses cake which gives you the bandwidth you have "right now". This lets us set the shaper much closer (seemingly exact in the case of docsis, atleast) to the actual configured TB rate (with better fq/aqm queue management) I just submitted an initial patch for cake to net-next after a huge round of testing. > > > >> >>-- Juliusz >>_______________________________________________ >>Bloat mailing list >>Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >>https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619