From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd36.google.com (mail-io1-xd36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 422883B29D; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 20:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd36.google.com with SMTP id n7so8902112iod.0; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 17:40:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UiWxN4OdJfNq5ObCDl1W5dwuaVgshWycZJNLYGfNaXE=; b=aRUwAgvu74ElvkwtHrCL/0C7Do+nsx8MQJms3v3//SGbxEEc/11Ss6C29p0GvsKADj DzEIGahGwiLxoLPDueKgeW1stoXjfTl2xJkGr26+PWsKSoQLyVpbR4YTw2vrkWYiutbq 5YGnQ8QFeCyt3nRSabLiZhTtzvyP12299RUovKYCX48XU5B0rUzP5FdmOnggxAF+i9hr DzCI1rpzJyMYWH7/BKXH9DlwFmqJqJcIy1IxYe5wtVWWurBNFBKK46H+qi+cs/kzeoI2 7Cz+f8AoZNzWZtCuZXC/38gyZg1fb/Fzsm4M1RdKtJ8zmoAvxCnlk/j1EpV0bymU13FV xdRw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UiWxN4OdJfNq5ObCDl1W5dwuaVgshWycZJNLYGfNaXE=; b=GjEqYUn6nHinfPaw8W30i+qWtf7hQSyn6RY2iQLWY8gZq6anqcJHMxVL/5B/qqmq+Y 3f36GMvkJmVkFYV3tPufBP6PerEGZ08/yrT8Gzn/lxfy7fUsATXdYAHc9DSuS3HvLdZK WBac3HCXB5/v3KTUAxLytOYn0rA4k0zsadCe42rWgeZrHx5s8/UailVFHvZ3d7jzi+Ok GcQcpns2niWMOZ4LeXKGDJpSNoqqvS3wzHBcRulurrAUbmZ5kN8AHr8nko2kXvUKHsoa sVwo3bgFYNIZHd/P7ZSqDDtg1XLEY6jnjZLdy5gNOORKjpmkUIUTvLECaZhDVLfnolux v1vQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532aA+00/V/jqsc+JMvXBkrLz/iiprpnpes14d47900HeYJXeQp3 50tZUiLgV5d40nhyPtrnKyNqWJ0b8h4vCX223s0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxhugXO9bdHX3dK1Z+YCpU6sk7OS+nUKbR720XDqzYZf2br5MwqYGa3VuMoUa3chv2lbrb6Hg11SvYztc1s1sg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:3cb:: with SMTP id g11mr13102728iov.204.1633912835385; Sun, 10 Oct 2021 17:40:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <003001d7bdf0$97282430$c5786c90$@inacomptc.com> <004901d7bdf2$8544e8a0$8fceb9e0$@inacomptc.com> <006f01d7be16$e21a95b0$a64fc110$@inacomptc.com> <008f01d7be2a$ccc5fbf0$6651f3d0$@inacomptc.com> In-Reply-To: <008f01d7be2a$ccc5fbf0$6651f3d0$@inacomptc.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2021 17:40:22 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jordan Szuch Cc: Cake List , bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] some mikrotik comments X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 00:40:36 -0000 On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 4:01 PM Jordan Szuch wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Taht > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2021 5:38 PM > To: Jordan Szuch > Cc: Cake List ; bloat > Subject: Re: [Bloat] some mikrotik comments > > Great! > > >Encouraged! > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 1:39 PM Jordan Szuch wrote= : > > > > Unfortunately, didn't have time to setup my own server but here are > > the results for Flent on against the public east/west bufferbloat > > servers: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ap4u4Rte63FqjqQ8zMdwTTBmcd_mnw?e=3D675gyh > > > > That's a shared OneDrive folder with results from running with CAKE and= then without any kind of shaping. Here's some additional information as we= ll. > > > > This was the command that was run: flent rrul -p all_scaled -l 60 -H > > netperf.bufferbloat.net > > >-t the_test_parameters # helps to name the plots, so you can compare the= m later > >--step-size=3D.05 # sample at a higher frequency > > Got it. There's now a new run in the shared CAKE folder with the high sam= ple frequency (Run #2) The upload background flow is really struggling at this speed (5% of the total bandwidth) but... this is probably a good result. I am comforted that mikrotik is shipping a correct cake. If you had 2x more uplink bandwidth, the observed delay on the measurement flows would be closer to 0. > > > Internet is a Spectrum cable connection. Bandwidth is supposed to be 10= 0Mbps down and 10Mbps up. I have it limited to 90Mbps and 9Mbps for shaping= . Here's also the CAKE settings I have configured on the router: > > >Is it not a docsis 3.1 modem? Because your unshaped result was *miserabl= e*. > > No, just 3.0. Most of the modems in this area are that presently (Norther= n Michigan). No much incentive for Spectrum to replace them unless you're p= urchasing their highest speeds. Not sure if a 3.1 modem would make a differ= ence in their case, but it's possible. At least on comcast now, all 3.1 modems have pie, and so do the cmts-es. Rather than 1000ms+ delay you are seeing on spectrum, you should see no more than 60ms, with pie on in both directions, on this test. The fairness vs the cake result will be less, also, but it is very hard to argue with a 16x1 reduction in latency under this load in the out of the comcast-box experience. I am certainly hoping that the rest of the cable industry follows comcast, soon. Someday perhaps they too will adopt cake, but I think they'd have to be forced into it by competitive pressure from a fiber provider, or a starlink. > > > > > Upload Queue > > name=3D"cake-nat-doc-up" kind=3Dcake cake-bandwidth=3D0bps cake-overhea= d=3D18 > > cake-mpu=3D64 cake-overhead-scheme=3Ddocsis cake-rtt=3D100ms > > cake-diffserv=3Ddiffserv4 cake-flowmode=3Dtriple-isolate cake-nat= =3Dyes > > cake-wash=3Dno cake-ack-filter=3Dfilter > > >0bps ? > > >with docsis framing you should be able to just say 10mbit, rather than 9= . > > >cake-ack-filter=3Dfilter ? does it have filter-aggressive? > > A quirk of how you can configure the queue on the router. You can specify= the bandwidth limit in the general queue configuration or the configuratio= n for the queue type you're using. Configuration now looks something like t= his: > > name=3D"cake-nat-doc-up" kind=3Dcake cake-bandwidth=3D10.0Mbps cake-overh= ead=3D18 > cake-mpu=3D64 cake-overhead-scheme=3Ddocsis cake-rtt=3D100ms > cake-diffserv=3Ddiffserv4 cake-flowmode=3Dtriple-isolate cake-nat=3D= yes > cake-wash=3Dno cake-ack-filter=3Daggressive > > name=3D"cake-nat-doc" kind=3Dcake cake-bandwidth=3D110.0Mbps cake-overhea= d=3D18 > cake-mpu=3D64 cake-overhead-scheme=3Ddocsis cake-rtt=3D100ms > cake-diffserv=3Ddiffserv4 cake-flowmode=3Dtriple-isolate cake-nat=3D= yes > cake-wash=3Dno cake-ack-filter=3Dnone > > And yes, there is the aggressive filter. I am in general unfond of the aggressive option, but ... pretty good. It shouldn't be quite this variable. Go back to just filter. If you want, try enabling ecn on the client. > > > > Download Queue > > name=3D"cake-nat-doc" kind=3Dcake cake-bandwidth=3D0bps cake-overhead= =3D18 > > cake-mpu=3D64 cake-overhead-scheme=3Ddocsis cake-rtt=3D100ms > > cake-diffserv=3Ddiffserv4 cake-flowmode=3Dtriple-isolate cake-nat= =3Dyes > > cake-wash=3Dno cake-ack-filter=3Dnone > > >It looks like your provisioned rate was closer to 120. Try 110. > > I increased the bandwidth as seen above. We'll see how that behaves! LGTM. 105 perhaps. Or 115. Try it during netflix hours. > > > Hopefully those settings are configured somewhat decently. Hope that he= lps! > > > > Jordan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dave Taht > > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2021 1:51 PM > > To: Jordan Szuch > > Cc: Cake List ; bloat > > > > Subject: Re: [Bloat] some mikrotik comments > > > > goferit! We have flent servers throughout the world, mostly undocumente= d. I tend to prefer folk setup their own, less noise in the data.... > > > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 9:18 AM Jordan Szuch wro= te: > > > > > > OK, I'll give it a shot! Please forgive me here as I haven't really r= un flent before. Would running something like what's listed in the Quick St= art here (https://flent.org/intro.html#quick-start) be sufficient? > > > > > > Jordan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dave Taht > > > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2021 12:11 PM > > > To: Jordan Szuch > > > Cc: Cake List ; bloat > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Bloat] some mikrotik comments > > > > > > It's flent.org rrul test output that I love. > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 9:05 AM Jordan Szuch via Bloat wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, > > > > > > > > Interesting that you should send this out; I recently picked up a u= nit (this one specifically: https://mikrotik.com/product/hap_ac2) to do som= e testing of the v7 firmware. Nothing super high end but enough to do a lit= tle testing. I have CAKE set to do some shaping and so far seems functional= . At least the bufferbloat speed tests from DSLReports and WaveForm indicat= e some shaping is happening. If you'd like any information about the unit, = the v7 firmware, or particular tests run then I'd be happy to help out. > > > > > > > > Jordan > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Bloat On Behalf Of > > > > Dave Taht > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2021 11:39 AM > > > > To: Cake List ; bloat > > > > > > > > Subject: [Bloat] some mikrotik comments > > > > > > > > the v7 beta gained doc and more os support for fq_codel and cake > > > > recently > > > > > > > > https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D885000#p885000 > > > > > > > > anyone out there actively testing mikrotik? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Fixing Starlink's Latencies: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xrwgw > > > > > > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Bloat mailing list > > > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Bloat mailing list > > > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Fixing Starlink's Latencies: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xrwgw > > > > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > > > > > > > > -- > > Fixing Starlink's Latencies: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xrwgw > > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > > > > -- > Fixing Starlink's Latencies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xrwg= w > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > --=20 Fixing Starlink's Latencies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xrwgw Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC