Re: [Bloat] [Rpm] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat

[Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>]

Well, we've all been yammering for many years, and the message is
getting through. Yes, at this point, changing the message to be more
directed at engineers than users would help, and to this day, I don't
know how to get to anyone in the
C suite, except through the complaints of their kids. Jim got on this
problem because of his kids. The guy that did dslreports, also. "my"
kids are

At the risk of burying the lede, our very own dave reed just did a
podcast on different stuff:
https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/701?autostart=false

Sometimes my own (shared with most of you) motivations tend to leak
through. I really encourage the independent growth of user created and
owned software, running on their own routers, and I'm very pleased to
see the level of activity on the openwrt forums showing how healthy
that part of our culture is. It would be a very different world if
we'd decided to settle for whatever an ISP was willing to give us, and
for things as they were, and I'm probably difficult to employ because
of my
fervent beliefs in anti-patenting, free and open source, and the right
to repair...

... but I wouldn't have my world any other way. I might die broke, but
I'll die free.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 11:44 AM Rich Brown via Rpm
<rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 11, 2022, at 1:05 PM, Bob McMahon <bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com> wrote:
>
> I agree that bufferbloat awareness is a good thing. The issue I have is the approach - ask consumers to "detect it" and replace a device with a new one, that may or may not, meet all the needs of the users.
>
>
> Better is that network engineers "design bloat out" from the beginning starting by properly sizing queues to service jitter, and for WiFi, to also enable aggregation techniques that minimize TXOP consumption.
>
>
> The Yes, but... part of my answer emphasizes awareness. How are the network engineers going to know it's worth the (minor) effort of creating properly-sized queues?
>
> There are two fronts to attack:
>
> - Manufacturers - This video is a start on getting their customers to use these responsiveness test tools and call the support lines.
>
> - Hardware (especially router) reviewers - It kills me that there is radio silence whenever I ask a reviewer if they have ever measured latency/responsiveness.  (BTW: Has anyone heard from Ben Moskowitz from Consumer Reports? We had a very encouraging phone call about a year ago, and they were going to get back to us...)
>
> Rich
>
>
> Bob
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:57 AM Rich Brown <richb.hanover@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 10, 2022, at 8:05 PM, Bob McMahon via Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>> > I think conflating bufferbloat with latency misses the subtle point in that
>> > bufferbloat is a measurement in memory units more than a measurement in
>> > time units.
>>
>>
>> Yes, but... I am going to praise this video, even as I encourage all the techies to be sure that they have the units correct.
>>
>> I've been yammering about the evils of latency/excess queueing for 10 years on my blog, in forums, etc. I have not achieved anywhere near the notoriety of this video (almost a third of a million views).
>>
>> I am delighted that there's an engaging, mass-market Youtube video that makes the case that bufferbloat even exists.
>>
>> Rich
>
>
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-- 
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC