From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk1-x72d.google.com (mail-qk1-x72d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 760EC3CB65 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 14:08:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72d.google.com with SMTP id y78so1718232qka.12 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:08:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q3DQhbKTgl8RmkWZ4xv/Ay6MM0RZHrGvAEbeQ43qVig=; b=W3qNKVfdHrmTulEaNXtTFUDTrd5vLpzs9ewyXsNi+vCj45EfOeJyRVhmxtoQj+qZ0V xi0Y63ENUam/nyDKF08FOcIRUcCZV36qx/uyI/mlW5AjnwCjIqy2EH4nsYyGpSt6Kotm S7jY5bZGiTUiu9wmyE73WwmU5kOXTSvQA/Q77E8EiyICfdqe1TS+S3yWeQwZ2hYW3WaT WmqEPf4QXRbNWzWi80+CEEr40lyoMzqvaivi5A5RG938jKXl9cux7tAHB0uuQNVvOp19 Jl9wOEqzjL9rzfatEexZAgm/WUIDBWiDYqVFKj7n/SwYtQLghvUBf52fdXN3L2s88MIg 7cSg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q3DQhbKTgl8RmkWZ4xv/Ay6MM0RZHrGvAEbeQ43qVig=; b=ebrNBgf75JB89lTixpcx1zutaWIXzeDWngDgdbosQ6TtC/e3SSKK9vTW3VCQSGHO1e YVkJ4nkaqlx5TTJUIsS149kUd0h6LV9O4GE6ZLJt0V0l32H8SUeQF0uIbhwJTVH2Lzn0 Or0lnQfjFfoanPrG7xzmVN/ZoovYiXmQpaYu4hG/BxG+PZMnmS7jOfEmeasKUpGJ+h/W BgPLS9PIVnNMFYuYg/E/weA8mPMV9dH/LgqKcUDazpKsLC4jipHfMqJpnI3laSBmW48M K15Kmdx4zKZ4rhjE8/zVIj/YBue4RERFyAn7s3TJ87dU9i692cB17TFV0X7V5zOD/T4n 0mgg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZ4AXnJhUNDGaNopSJgqOwS6+kncGdtWNVDuslIDBdIPRbTY3SS PaVwed2XqGKvsjyyOH2Ygw78c86L5z6scwS8aHw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VFV0eVOGPWjyItW0h8lM2sLAf3JigS0o3irCqJz3bXv9wqXYHEbBokHwmWqeF4Whl11o4g64COhHBResYHYH4= X-Received: by 2002:a37:39cd:: with SMTP id g196mr2573019qka.237.1543518504874; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:08:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <65EAC6C1-4688-46B6-A575-A6C7F2C066C5@heistp.net> <86b16a95-e47d-896b-9d43-69c65c52afc7@kit.edu> <87d0qowd2e.fsf@taht.net> <20181129104332.5b2c7de7@xeon-e3> In-Reply-To: <20181129104332.5b2c7de7@xeon-e3> From: Dave Taht Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:08:10 -0800 Message-ID: To: Stephen Hemminger Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , Jonathan Morton , bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] when does the CoDel part of fq_codel help in the real world? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:08:25 -0000 On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 10:43 AM Stephen Hemminger wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 23:35:53 -0800 > Dave Taht wrote: > > > > As someone who works with moving packets, it's perplexing to me to > > > interact with transport peeps who seem enormously focused on > > > "goodput". My personal opinion is that most people would be better of= f > > > with 80% of their available bandwidth being in use without any > > > noticable buffer induced delay, as opposed to the transport protocol > > > doing its damndest to fill up the link to 100% and sometimes failing > > > and inducing delay instead. > > The problem is that any protocol is mostly blind to the underlying networ= k > (and that can change). To use dave's analogy it is like being put in > the driver seat of a vehicle blind folded. When you step on the gas you > don't know if it is a dragster, jet fighter, or a soviet tractor. The onl= y > way a protocol can tell is based on the perceived inertia and when > it runs into things... coffee. blown through nose. thx! I'm still chuckling - 'because I also referenced a church. You sit in a pew, and *pray* for something good to happen. > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-205-9740