From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk0-x231.google.com (mail-qk0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC1823B2A2 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 15:20:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-qk0-x231.google.com with SMTP id q130so28028267qke.1 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 12:20:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WGuNeGqpS/odvY2Z3HIm3tMZQGpA20uAAz0ZhWmutJs=; b=SVmyfScaUPofNhPkQBspASqvTJpcSoFXP0sCx20nO0RzWwNsrT8ehbQ+GSnwVVYl8J vTFjGPMuWhFOH1YW9SFdPfopgS9XLwm0ejySk1b6UbUNK0PA576rwpvmQ6UtsJn7Ijli 7IzZmlhtG1ltEH3PINnUdc9wJJSaPUZgnkoiPvdH4NrMx5tkFFGTyPizBoQNi1y++sCD XMg76oBj5q1ZZSjqK3dhfUhhpjkO3drUy5tn3OgQWxek6fjZRokoxWWs47JIk+nJSzbe WtodbCnb0AzNG5C6KJj2lCQtx/Y2n0n9BSqKyXxPdT/hwESKtlIuVxUWCM7vfbvb5fJ4 KFQw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WGuNeGqpS/odvY2Z3HIm3tMZQGpA20uAAz0ZhWmutJs=; b=Uqq/1Un5Ch56AjvD2aJA128w2DJeDrB/nqt8/3dbnntDnur/RbJaUZKGYOFSrP07bw ETQS9F05wXlKN3StvfncBCH+X1TRA1AH4a6nN7sOUbMQ8/fHMkNNJFz9j9LxTkc8kEi9 DNLnOfmCEZI59bpLPlk22PXMNcQmB1hxAQLyCUMoHtrnQUDaavevii45lEgvFNDJsRN9 jzqMfRhgrRt1xfiEY8Ix3/cKYEI2Jz8dKWnzjZzJJOhRHcKY8ZA/4PC+RqL4yTYPxvw0 sDPkOkp3AchQ52V7DKmOXb5bzPSb7YHQEWA/iVy2eUY8ziRZzLf679JU2NhIeFftvu1f qj+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC03YAi0cxTXVztPYONSkTzopqFVJUXTSWbZ6Wnu8802tsJu3XPPO5C4GSOAg6uiYwJurcNkzkxXUdLwr2g== X-Received: by 10.55.100.67 with SMTP id y64mr4507834qkb.118.1479932416354; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 12:20:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.137.198 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 12:20:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <8d72490d-551a-c58f-991a-1750e9af8df9@gmail.com> <2e7e4dbe-5a95-93f3-89de-447f6bf970f9@gmail.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 12:20:15 -0800 Message-ID: To: David Lang Cc: Benjamin Cronce , bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] fixing bufferbloat in 2017 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 20:20:16 -0000 On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 11:42 AM, David Lang wrote: > Most people not only aren't operating at 1Gb/sec, they can't buy a 1Gb/se= c > line at any cost. I too have seen the bursty behavior that OP is describing. It's one reason why cake's estimator can't get a good result on cable. > > 100Mb is getting more common, but the majority of people cannot buy a lin= e > this fast for any amount of money. > > 10-30 Mb is probably the range that "most people" have, with a large numb= er > stll having <10Mb available, no matter what they are willing to pay > > David Lang > > On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, Benjamin Cronce wrote: > >> I meant the actual physical link, not the provisioned rate. Most last mi= le >> tech encapsulates Ethernet frames into larger super-frames. Decapsulatin= g >> the Ethernet frames is pretty much at 1Gb line rate. On my GPON link, wi= th >> shaping in PFSense turned off, I regularly see 4,000+ 1500byte datagrams >> at >> full 1Gb link rate hitting my WAN before my ISP starts shaping to my >> 150Mb/s average. When I had a cable modem, I would see similar, except >> instead of a constant 1Gb/s, I would see bursts of multiple packets, the= n >> a >> small pause, but eventually the packets started to get more and more >> spaced >> as the provisioned average started to kick in. I assumed this was becaus= e >> my DOCSIS3 8x bonded link could only max out around 300Mb/s, even though >> my >> provisioned rate was only 30Mb/s. >> >> It really depended on the quantum of the shaping algorithm, calculated >> average window size, and how elastic or strict it was. >> >> Ahh, packet packing, what a fun problem. >> >> On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 12:38 PM, David Lang wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, Benjamin Cronce wrote: >>> >>> Most people only have a 1Gb network link, >>>> >>>> >>> >>> umm, no, most people have FAR slower links, by an order or two of >>> magnatude. >>> >>> David Lang >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software! http://blog.cerowrt.org