From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oa1-x36.google.com (mail-oa1-x36.google.com [IPv6:2001:4860:4864:20::36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBDEA3B29E; Sat, 1 Jul 2023 11:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oa1-x36.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1b06c978946so2885165fac.0; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 08:31:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1688225468; x=1690817468; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=qeqkVpNPwyeJR9J52SsnI5h4F2/l3m1pMgg1e/wrQq8=; b=KVJQUJ/7F8Nx9Ql7UKebSCMraQEMzmSDxwsiRakI+BBB+BOZC6vFqcmek/k5jGiQhI iLE3mqhGfs237vPbHVUda/D00Y9rVEQccPtEhmASwnuhGI+P0ZBZxOcGHj/WZ47IPgCa lix07RzIlKjG1nGw7aT4OEtnCyQOphTflJsWgt1k+/K9NGUVf01QTnjd7ObNusi7xNBt KdYosGmtGXeGmt4BgEmMYRupRPzIlyNOOnDWzDGI8KUSXoooxNr7G0OPw2r9sZ9l/cap FVj/zShHLiiOlGIz3TOnTfpK836/u1ggNknZNL8dc3OOKTqaoiH9wdZg1q4wx9Kyy5bo VvaQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1688225468; x=1690817468; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=qeqkVpNPwyeJR9J52SsnI5h4F2/l3m1pMgg1e/wrQq8=; b=ZQ/rCJTq2Meg7YtH7ZvFSHYJtsdfsxXjGU0g999c2AAyvXRlikZD+YlPU4sD0MqNBA tqniNZwgjVWzg7jN+f2eEQkeJBXuUUc7yU48RDjCkjaMi4DL3CRVR6jwe70pVjUct7HG nDyhB+2lfb3NcMlszaa4nrVd/fYg62dw8xXltE3Q/I6zG5RCZ5a7rl6flKCHsGMx3gy8 EP5ZnhD5MWiCMB8ZErOV52cBR0P3G+Ap+rHVyeYCei1oB0dqyxsT1LLRT8f8rNX36AQD zzksLMF2zzrh7Txd4EUKrCutxSdPdeOpuNFJ9LND8szxwErK21KMT8C2LHpxz+RKNObN Px+w== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLY/50n6DBxILIj42mI/rzwFP8eL5AGtI/+pw7FxdZEELl/HU96i ZJnJDu7OSEigcgd/f0zLGJufbgRyQU32QbxzObI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ7CfSk+ZJrYaLWkL2jrEWeDN1+3MAn2iRozQhDyUAFxy3WFQPuCgVFDCi0WGljwFwyGSZb5U8fct1kEXnsH+MI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:c06:b0:1b0:89fc:276c with SMTP id le6-20020a0568700c0600b001b089fc276cmr7487576oab.19.1688225467836; Sat, 01 Jul 2023 08:31:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202307010523.3615NILa077063@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <202307010523.3615NILa077063@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> From: Dave Taht Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2023 09:30:55 -0600 Message-ID: To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink , bloat , BBR Development , Rpm , sander@comsys.rwth-aachen.de, grote@comsys.rwth-aachen.de, wehrle@comsys.rwth-aachen.de, kunze@comsys.rwth-aachen.de Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Starlink] Instant Messaging Meets Video Conferencing: Studying the Performance of IM Video Calls X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2023 15:31:08 -0000 On Sat, Jul 1, 2023 at 12:23=E2=80=AFAM Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > This paper does a really good job of measuring the impacts of tcp > > cross traffic, including BBRv2, against the videoconferencing > > subsystems in signal, telegram, and whatsapp. > > Did I miss something? The paper only shows a dumb bell topology with > instream traffic, I did not see any cross flow traffic testing. Do we share the same definition of cross traffic? The testbed consists of fifo, codel, and fq_codel queues, against 1-2 tcp flows, against a p2p videoconferencing flow. I am sometimes just as subject to confirmation bias as the next guy, and in re-reading this this morning I would have liked it if they had cited rfc8290, and extended their tests to use a bigger BDP for the fifo as well as tested web PLT. a shorter RTT would also be interesting in the case of a ptp app such as this. An exciting part to me remains in exploring the videoconferencing QoE technique they discuss (Brisque) which I haven=C2=B4t found sources for yet... > > > > > https://tma.ifip.org/2023/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2023/06/tma2023-f= inal37.pdf > > > > Naturally fq_codel shines. The paper also introduces a new means of > > measuring videoconferenceQoE, called BRISQUE. > > > > About my only kvetch is they didn't try cake, which has a different > > shaper, drops less packets, has less collisions, as well as diffserv > > support. > > > > Seeing BBRv2 stats and impact was very interesting also. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:705879391= 0227111937/ > > Dave T?ht CSO, LibreQos > > _______________________________________________ > > Starlink mailing list > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > --=20 Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227= 111937/ Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos