[Bloat] will starlink have bufferbloat?

[Bloat] will starlink have bufferbloat?

[Dave Taht]

With the first major starlink launch stuck on the pad, and having
never got a straight answer about how starlink was going to manage
satellite handovers and admission control, I came up with an
"annoyer-in-chief" idea to see if we could find out what the plan was.

If everybody here (500+ members of these mailing lists!) could take 2
minutes to compose an interesting tweet or reply to elon musk on the
subject, maybe we'd get somewhere. I just did one (
https://twitter.com/mtaht/status/1131131277413822464 ) but a huge
variety of posts on the theme are possible, other thoughts were things
like:

@elonmusk There seems to be no intelligent life among ISPs down here.
Has #starlink handled the #bufferbloat problem? (
https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf  )

@elonmusk Keep hoping #bufferbloat will be solved by #starlink - got a
plan? ( https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf )

do it on replies to anything he says about starlink, keep doin it, and
perhaps, an answer will appear.

Sometimes ya gotta be loud.

-- 

Dave Täht
CTO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-831-205-9740

Re: [Bloat] will starlink have bufferbloat?

[Dave Taht]

And I tried my first ever post to reddit, not realizing it didn't take html....

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/brn6gg/will_starlink_have_bufferbloat/

and slashdot also.

On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:53 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> With the first major starlink launch stuck on the pad, and having
> never got a straight answer about how starlink was going to manage
> satellite handovers and admission control, I came up with an
> "annoyer-in-chief" idea to see if we could find out what the plan was.
>
> If everybody here (500+ members of these mailing lists!) could take 2
> minutes to compose an interesting tweet or reply to elon musk on the
> subject, maybe we'd get somewhere. I just did one (
> https://twitter.com/mtaht/status/1131131277413822464 ) but a huge
> variety of posts on the theme are possible, other thoughts were things
> like:
>
> @elonmusk There seems to be no intelligent life among ISPs down here.
> Has #starlink handled the #bufferbloat problem? (
> https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf  )
>
> @elonmusk Keep hoping #bufferbloat will be solved by #starlink - got a
> plan? ( https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf )
>
> do it on replies to anything he says about starlink, keep doin it, and
> perhaps, an answer will appear.
>
> Sometimes ya gotta be loud.
>
> --
>
> Dave Täht
> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> http://www.teklibre.com
> Tel: 1-831-205-9740



-- 

Dave Täht
CTO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-831-205-9740

[Bloat] Does Ubiquiti Unifi have bufferbloat and unfair/bloated WiFi scheduling?

[David P. Reed]

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I have been chatting with a startup in the Multi-User Dwelling networking operations space, and they seem to really be attracted to Ubiquiti Unifi systems. I can't blame them for wanting a comprehensive and evolving system.
 
But on the questions related to bufferbloat and making wifi both low latency and fast, I really don't know much about these products. (I have a Unifi 10 Gb/sec switch as my home/lab fiber backbone, but that's not really relevant to answering this question).
 
So, since you, Dave, and others have been talking about real-world fq_codel etc. and faster wifi scheduling, does anyone know what the status at Ubiquiti is?
 
I know some here run OpenWRT/LEDE on Unifi APs, but that's not my question, really.
 
Any knowledge out there?
 
(I'd like to recommend that they run some actual load tests - flent RRUL, etc. - but I think they might need some help).
Personally I have no stake whatever in their use, but I'd love to get someone to start solving the bloat and queueing/scheduling problems.
 

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Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] will starlink have bufferbloat?

[David P. Reed]

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Sorry, I can't help - I never spend time or effort on Twitter, Reddit, etc. because I see no value and lots of problems in doing that.
 
Musk probably wouldn't love my views on most of his companies, anyway.
I hope he gets something right on this one.
 
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 6:45am, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> said:



> And I tried my first ever post to reddit, not realizing it didn't take html....
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/brn6gg/will_starlink_have_bufferbloat/
> 
> and slashdot also.
> 
> On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:53 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > With the first major starlink launch stuck on the pad, and having
> > never got a straight answer about how starlink was going to manage
> > satellite handovers and admission control, I came up with an
> > "annoyer-in-chief" idea to see if we could find out what the plan was.
> >
> > If everybody here (500+ members of these mailing lists!) could take 2
> > minutes to compose an interesting tweet or reply to elon musk on the
> > subject, maybe we'd get somewhere. I just did one (
> > https://twitter.com/mtaht/status/1131131277413822464 ) but a huge
> > variety of posts on the theme are possible, other thoughts were things
> > like:
> >
> > @elonmusk There seems to be no intelligent life among ISPs down here.
> > Has #starlink handled the #bufferbloat problem? (
> > https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf )
> >
> > @elonmusk Keep hoping #bufferbloat will be solved by #starlink - got a
> > plan? ( https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf )
> >
> > do it on replies to anything he says about starlink, keep doin it, and
> > perhaps, an answer will appear.
> >
> > Sometimes ya gotta be loud.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dave Täht
> > CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> > http://www.teklibre.com
> > Tel: 1-831-205-9740
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Dave Täht
> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> http://www.teklibre.com
> Tel: 1-831-205-9740
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
> 

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Re: [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] Does Ubiquiti Unifi have bufferbloat and unfair/bloated WiFi scheduling?

[Jim Gettys]

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I'm running OpenWrt on the Unifi AC Mesh access point; (it has an ath10k
chip). It sits on a pole above my ridgeline and provides service to my
house and yard.

I dunno what the state in the Ubiquity provided firmware is.

OpenWrt has the nice new wifi code in it, which indeed really fixes
bufferbloat.

As I also have an ath9k in my laptop and run Linux, I now even do
(previously insane) things like have my scheduled backups go over WiFi while
teleconferencing, and I'm a happy camper.

Getting OpenWrt installed on it the first time is a bit of a chore; I have
some notes around someplace on what I learned when I did the install.
                                              - Jim


On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 2:46 PM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:

> I have been chatting with a startup in the Multi-User Dwelling networking
> operations space, and they seem to really be attracted to Ubiquiti Unifi
> systems. I can't blame them for wanting a comprehensive and evolving system.
>
>
>
> But on the questions related to bufferbloat and making wifi both low
> latency and fast, I really don't know much about these products. (I have a
> Unifi 10 Gb/sec switch as my home/lab fiber backbone, but that's not really
> relevant to answering this question).
>
>
>
> So, since you, Dave, and others have been talking about real-world
> fq_codel etc. and faster wifi scheduling, does anyone know what the status
> at Ubiquiti is?
>
>
>
> I know some here run OpenWRT/LEDE on Unifi APs, but that's not my
> question, really.
>
>
>
> Any knowledge out there?
>
>
>
> (I'd like to recommend that they run some actual load tests - flent RRUL,
> etc. - but I think they might need some help).
>
> Personally I have no stake whatever in their use, but I'd love to get
> someone to start solving the bloat and queueing/scheduling problems.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Make-wifi-fast mailing list
> Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast

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Re: [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] Does Ubiquiti Unifi have bufferbloat and unfair/bloated WiFi scheduling?

[John Yates]

On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 3:22 PM Jim Gettys <jg@freedesktop.org> wrote:
>
> Getting OpenWrt installed on it the first time is a bit of a chore; I have some notes around someplace on what I learned when I did the install.

From a lurker: If you can find them please do post them.

/john

Re: [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] Does Ubiquiti Unifi have bufferbloat and unfair/bloated WiFi scheduling?

[Jim Gettys]

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On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 3:41 PM John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org> wrote:

> On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 3:22 PM Jim Gettys <jg@freedesktop.org> wrote:
> >
> > Getting OpenWrt installed on it the first time is a bit of a chore; I
> have some notes around someplace on what I learned when I did the install.
>
> From a lurker: If you can find them please do post them.
>

There is some guaranteed staleness in the document.

Unless you are in a hurry, I'm planning to do a fresh install on new kit in
a few weeks and will update then with current experience. I'll post them
then...  The router uses a different bootloader/flash arrangement, and so
is a bit of a hassle relative to most routers.

If you are in a hurry, I'll email you the document I have (my son
successfully followed them), so they are not complete rubbish.

Jim


Jim

>
> /john
>

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Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] will starlink have bufferbloat?

[Dave Taht]

Well, I was encouraged by a job listing (which I put in for a few
minutes after they successfully deployed the first batch)

In that it implies that they have solutions to a variety of issues,
need someone to write 'em down, and plan to use linux for the ground
stations.

https://www.theladders.com/job/sr-wireless-protocol-software-engineer-spacex-palo-alto-ca_39321968?utm_campaign=google_jobs_apply&utm_source=google_jobs_apply&utm_medium=organic


On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 11:48 AM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I can't help - I never spend time or effort on Twitter, Reddit, etc. because I see no value and lots of problems in doing that.
>
>
>
> Musk probably wouldn't love my views on most of his companies, anyway.
>
> I hope he gets something right on this one.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 6:45am, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> said:
>
> > And I tried my first ever post to reddit, not realizing it didn't take html....
> >
> > https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/brn6gg/will_starlink_have_bufferbloat/
> >
> > and slashdot also.
> >
> > On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:53 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > With the first major starlink launch stuck on the pad, and having
> > > never got a straight answer about how starlink was going to manage
> > > satellite handovers and admission control, I came up with an
> > > "annoyer-in-chief" idea to see if we could find out what the plan was.
> > >
> > > If everybody here (500+ members of these mailing lists!) could take 2
> > > minutes to compose an interesting tweet or reply to elon musk on the
> > > subject, maybe we'd get somewhere. I just did one (
> > > https://twitter.com/mtaht/status/1131131277413822464 ) but a huge
> > > variety of posts on the theme are possible, other thoughts were things
> > > like:
> > >
> > > @elonmusk There seems to be no intelligent life among ISPs down here.
> > > Has #starlink handled the #bufferbloat problem? (
> > > https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf )
> > >
> > > @elonmusk Keep hoping #bufferbloat will be solved by #starlink - got a
> > > plan? ( https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf )
> > >
> > > do it on replies to anything he says about starlink, keep doin it, and
> > > perhaps, an answer will appear.
> > >
> > > Sometimes ya gotta be loud.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Dave Täht
> > > CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> > > http://www.teklibre.com
> > > Tel: 1-831-205-9740
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dave Täht
> > CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> > http://www.teklibre.com
> > Tel: 1-831-205-9740
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
> >



-- 

Dave Täht
CTO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-831-205-9740

Re: [Bloat] will starlink have bufferbloat?

[Dave Taht]

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 Mailing lists seem to be no longer effectively indexed by Google, so I've
been trying various alternative means of having our issues show up in the
world.

That Reddit post got a bit of traction, as the author of "delay is not an
option" showed up, and it does help that I'm pretty passionately interested
in the overall subject... How a service intended to carry internet for
millions is actually going to work has had too few questions of it asked so
far.

On Thu, May 23, 2019, 4:14 AM Rich Brown <richb.hanover@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> Google Alerts today found your Reddit post (
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/brn6gg/will_starlink_have_bufferbloat/
> )
>
> It also provided a link to a Slashdot post that seems to have been marked
> as spam...
> https://slashdot.org/submission/9718636/will-starlink-have-bufferbloat
>
> Was this your original submission? In any case, I upvoted it.
>
> Rich
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>

On Thu, May 23, 2019, 4:14 AM Rich Brown <richb.hanover@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> Google Alerts today found your Reddit post (
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/brn6gg/will_starlink_have_bufferbloat/
> )
>
> It also provided a link to a Slashdot post that seems to have been marked
> as spam...
> https://slashdot.org/submission/9718636/will-starlink-have-bufferbloat
>
> Was this your original submission? In any case, I upvoted it.
>
> Rich
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>

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Re: [Bloat] will starlink have bufferbloat?

[Rich Brown]

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Hi Dave,

Google Alerts today found your Reddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/brn6gg/will_starlink_have_bufferbloat/ <https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/brn6gg/will_starlink_have_bufferbloat/>)

It also provided a link to a Slashdot post that seems to have been marked as spam... https://slashdot.org/submission/9718636/will-starlink-have-bufferbloat

Was this your original submission? In any case, I upvoted it.

Rich

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