From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt0-x244.google.com (mail-qt0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E4C83B2A4 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 13:24:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-qt0-x244.google.com with SMTP id n6so1248200qtd.0 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:24:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+/QJ2IdRh4vr4GbtoruxzWHXJRcA1Fm+MrE8x+phVMI=; b=M10LmftdXXOkGmIjUIvDSxHuThrplejQtxjFmuCP5f2qRgGA1Rf6RcKS/bDlBYjlbN FrU3T5ZRe+aADrUAN1q1PPMkUaFw2prR0FJAga4H9sGLrFdhcaXVO9Ko/2bcJ8GH/rmo 84NVlIX0MpUR5Tidk0VIxU7yds+LJ1nc1Ta92lBSrif8T42gC1lcw/VReBpSnU5IWmot SNDwAzrVmFQUQth7xlBH9wxdzWEagduLAt8jc2K4bujJq+uPuQ0oxYq1xEZPN055ejd1 i5K+rICeoDOKple8bbcHWB4pr6CRzZb9e3ofE1/PVq7qWuUAyFtAmmPFidywgnN4pQDg QLZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+/QJ2IdRh4vr4GbtoruxzWHXJRcA1Fm+MrE8x+phVMI=; b=bb62JKZdzkynPmZVQDoLogWrRScj0flNi7/WJeS8T0HT8R9nNHA57B8qpWoUioA0NQ DFAhRdq+zeTvMJv2bn6ZNRkGf+HwBGMOdIXDHEPf7Ptl2YP4MdjK8xQ/+e8cpRZkaUT6 fHwQerN6bP4Ca/4s38upS+yi1xdYOPWVj2Gd/KTkfAju+hxpIFDuPpgS6hmtfBFW59Ws htzUAMb5R3eE6XPoSNf4NFFw0CaUR1y/UCetyXIzyfKoir53mkZDqj9/L6BoiYAu8uH9 yqNX0lyDMGQREzuDS/80nkLRn+MhZdxcNcGLWR/mAGHntFjNXJngihuXiZfHRrJTRfVi bucw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC03LpevpXP+WmhEuJcLuAac/U7YTZ+/VQkzTW6IAyq722CVxE7PTWWKhzdZ3vRAC3pS2LM7wNBg31VsKmg== X-Received: by 10.200.36.148 with SMTP id s20mr3672084qts.275.1479925457709; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:24:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.137.198 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:24:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <653CD759-7E08-43BC-9FDC-3B082917F33E@gmx.de> References: <8d72490d-551a-c58f-991a-1750e9af8df9@gmail.com> <653CD759-7E08-43BC-9FDC-3B082917F33E@gmx.de> From: Dave Taht Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:24:16 -0800 Message-ID: To: Sebastian Moeller Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson , bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] fixing bufferbloat in 2017 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 18:24:18 -0000 On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Sebastian Moeller wrote= : > >> On Nov 23, 2016, at 19:09, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >> >> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, David Lang wrote: >> >>> Deploy what we already know to work on the real edge devices and things= get vastly simpler. > > One problem will be that the actual edge devices are often ISP su= pplied and hence extremely cost sensitive; combined with increasing bandwid= th in many ISP offerings, having CPEs that can perform ingress shaping at = =E2=80=9Cmodern=E2=80=9D rates looks challenging if the same CPEs also need= to be very cheap. Egress shaping is a different kettle of fish though and = for most asymmetric plans the CPE either should have enough punch or might = be amendable to a BQL-like solution that could e actually relatively comput= ationally cheap. But for that to happen we would need to convince ISPs and/= or CPE chipset manufacturer (or better those engineers that create the driv= ers for the SDKs). One benefit of the fq_codel on wifi work is that for homes that are primarily wifi, you no longer need inbound rate shaping to work, you can do it on the wifi naturally. A long term plan might be to try to develop code that could be used at the ISP, a transparent bridge that would take over customer rate shaping and queue management. Hardware "good enough" to do this, ranging from high end xeons to the next generation NXP products, to mellonox's bluefield thing, is arriving, and I anticipate being able to effectively fq and shape 1000s of customers with gear that costs less than 10k - maybe not with linux, but with vpp and/or dpdk. >> >> Sure! Sounds Great. How? > > Getting a big ISP on board would already be a great start, if com= bined with a tiny bit of PR=E2=80=A6? > > Best Regards > Sebastian > > >> >> -- >> Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software! http://blog.cerowrt.org