From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi0-x230.google.com (mail-oi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3F0421F2D8 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oign205 with SMTP id n205so64526556oig.2 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:05:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jtBuZIa4ePtaBU54xU9xsJ/YZcu5Zp6PFSJiVN9y+1E=; b=ixwUhCi3za+2JDlxlJy6HX6LISWYA0Lh+fvDXdTxm8DwMd7pRHchfwWx7UQmtKaKqX aVshTIDr9SuvZxHZkA/ewkfNKzUxWTdonYXTs60lLqp8Smg0+U0FAKzseJxDzDrCCLgW dyLtUAKIXly7q5BI27RVTCLc4MRNtazrzmTPPHqxbgbM9L6obq1AzA6VF9y61dGEBsVc a184dPAVJ+FVo4IjcGt8i+1op5h09wo/+/MAP+e5DRN6ynF1aiWl0sBwzuREFegLIolb acfNI84bWVW9fiBgdtJYLgwS7cA7W+dKKpc2LzBMTOVonDC7GKWlTQvup9OfxyT1Vt8Q UJfg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.4.76 with SMTP id 73mr2184770oie.11.1430460313574; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.71.139 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:05:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <87618e6gkm.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <58258E43-953F-4A3B-ABC0-EA4193CC67C1@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:05:13 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: jb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] extremely good dslreports result for bufferbloat on free.fr X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 06:05:43 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 06:05:43 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 06:05:43 -0000 This got an A+ rating, which I would not have given it, given the enormous load spike. http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/400387 Imagine if your steering wheel behaved like this. On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 8:10 PM, jb wrote: > Already users are like "how can i fix this!". The FAQ can be improved. > I've just replied to one who has lower speeds on the surfboard SB6141 whi= ch > is a modem designed for crazy cable speeds. He has an "F" and his downstr= eam > bloat is terrible, and upstream not much better. > > I imagine a LOT of people on slower plans have a "recommended" modem like > this one. I have not found a cable modem with less than 250ms bloat at 50mbit/5. The docsis 3 ones are often in the 800 ms range. > > However most of them will hear that the problems from bloat only happen w= hen > you reach maximum upload or download speed and will think, well, I can li= ve > with that, I never run my connection to capacity and I don't upload to > offsite backups.. Latency spikes are annoying no matter how they are inflicted, and happen all the time on nearly any workload. Your test is testing tcp in steady sta= te, most web transactions are bursts of dozens to a hundred flows in slow start. It is the business class customers that feel it most often. I have never visited a business class cable customer that had reasonable amounts of dela= y and jitter during business hours. After living in bloat-free universe for quite some time now, annoying issues with things like netflix are decreased, voip and videoconferencing work all the time, same for games... it would be hard to create a metric for user satisfaction, but every before/after comparison someone implementing a solution is quite overjoyed. https://twitter.com/mnot/status/575581792650018816 > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Rich Brown wro= te: >> >> >> > On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:33 PM, jb wrote: >> > ... >> >> if it did get a rating it would be an "D" or "F".. >> > >> > How about "E" for error? That can be further explained in the text >> > "Sometimes the bloat is so bad that we cannot adaquately test for it - >> > and other times there is something else badly wrong with the link that >> > we cannot identify." >> >> I would stay away from a letter grade for that state, since it could >> appear to be on the continuum of A+, A, B, C, D, E (?) F... >> >> Better to give it a "-" or "?" mark. And if they hover over the "?", let >> the text show: "Sometimes the bloat is so bad that we cannot adaquately = test >> for it - and other times there is something else badly wrong with the li= nk >> that we cannot identify." >> >> Rich > > --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67