From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi0-x232.google.com (mail-oi0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 976B021F506 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 10:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oigx81 with SMTP id x81so16980711oig.1 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 10:53:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ndiej5Ks299jaHgIV0g7bLlPu0eJbQ+64rLnj4MiaBA=; b=o14OVL7qlhT7IMr4XABnBKXGE80ySWpojg3qPxh7eXcRLBpnEsR4j0rJRrJoA9ad9o N2KK1c1l9ZwKBSHix1mpFNP6o166TNh5zR7VtikK0WDyvIbCb4DGcRPTeBi8JqqVVidI ppxCE0IGLf08KNvcPP+ytk0kyBjOiIDDsIH5nTUGMICwxpbAoTROfqctc7pEUivOrAY/ mZoceDu91t3U67/8WyjuUcl/4WpgMQLG4KKY41tGbirqwx3gRDDfPEdWbJo6v0LAQxvW GVGw6NpRfw+/6CfM9mekICILP/E1cQ8seJ5LtGZHt1jezMT74bF4wyJY85yWQSfYsHhm Pdjw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.91.212 with SMTP id p203mr1168618oib.108.1434477192384; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 10:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.105.129 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jun 2015 10:53:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20150616173306.GA9097@sesse.net> References: <20150616173306.GA9097@sesse.net> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 10:53:12 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: "Steinar H. Gunderson" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] sweeping up the bloat X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 17:53:41 -0000 On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: > On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 10:10:18AM -0700, Dave Taht wrote: >> As one example: I don't have a firm guideline for how, why or when or >> when to enable pacing > > My guideline is =E2=80=9Calways=E2=80=9D. As you are the original champion of the idea, sure! :) Certainly seeing the original paper on pacing thoroughly refuted[1] and observing the effects on tons of traffic now, I, too am mostly a fan (aggregation bothers me but it's hard to measure, and fq_codel remains the right thing for routers, bare metal servers hosting vms, and stuff that gets hw flow control. IMHO. I would love to be able to turn on the right things more automagically in all these cases) But guidelines on how to configure it in applications are missing. As are when where and how to implement it in DCs, handheld clients, internal servers and hosts, home routers, slow networks, VMs, and bare metal servers. Quic does pacing, so far as I know, entirely in userspace, or does it rely on sch_fq to do so? Should a VOIP app or server like freeswitch use it? I see in the kernel support for sk_pacing_rate, and max_pacing_rate and it is unclear how/when those options can be of aid and set. I have never seen the patches for vlc (not that I recall, anyway), and certainly think that pacing and tcp_notsent_lowat would help things like x11 tunneling. And I'd like to add correct support for it to netperf and flent so as to better observe the effects on and off at various rates, bandwidths, and link layer technologies. So as you are the expert on this, can I request you write up where to use it and how? Neednt be one big chunk... [1] https://reproducingnetworkresearch.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/cs244-13-tc= p-pacing-and-buffer-sizing/ > > /* Steinar */ > -- > Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/ > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht What will it take to vastly improve wifi for everyone? https://plus.google.com/u/0/explore/makewififast