From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pj1-x102e.google.com (mail-pj1-x102e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7CDB3B29D; Sat, 5 Aug 2023 13:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x102e.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2683add3662so2237264a91.1; Sat, 05 Aug 2023 10:56:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1691258196; x=1691862996; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=g8A/5oX43XaVwNZdUIBy9hfzp/5F+tqvGGvDdZOCcLY=; b=Ei4X+ePFW6AELaKgCVzPOk8IDmR5jl4IQ8A6QNYmDvN3/FF6hFuwkR9Lcjw7FtlQrw AD+46Ho+UvsPWI6HwTfz3O90OdbLmU4/dZDW/04l6n7bOrSbhlnuwdQF+u8CY2lFZGRS bAFoSRbXdWdQRSnAZma1c+cAadLVjtwn9X6vfPamgLsOQZTrmB3w9fbZ+/42BnTB5xfZ aaIOohbjy/NkCWNFuK9I0z88f4fvjCOwP5HMsBh6mXLCEw3HIrb/wlLvy2nlXYKFvaEF gKYik6M6auMNRXolDmYZM3cdqmca4ixuawn/BrRG7jm4kBxKfcAo37ovajDsoNMTo6Nf N77g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1691258196; x=1691862996; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=g8A/5oX43XaVwNZdUIBy9hfzp/5F+tqvGGvDdZOCcLY=; b=RFJEiB7DjPpabf8wVs+zfLRiLvL9tSfiH30Hl4WtJmqVtKrFJgdfXitAXvJwXaQ3Za eY0tXt8WA71JCbGtZ7g9A5DtICwnwRtG/u/195gSKv3GKNa5gyBRZ363opkU5/hruG+2 gVGvfCNnqVvG3n3OVuSzJf90fCcS/cQby+5oZxNnLFwk37ZKTPb9CrfodY4oup3AHC2M zmwsmmjV+gH6JEaJ5grmYB8xA5DZ0VTW5TGZTxgSA3URLQww8HqzOvfCEKvuUtlEyM12 utFtJvKmMOO8iAwSPrMXOWVqTbLuxXmJuovjgsMecWaisJaJU3veTloh1RIlt9ExXIBr iKCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Ywozqa0lN1uW6h7qjDVh9PDY7GVOKOeQ978PfA8aSHXiNxdM5vM ZfksfYoKDtj3VTgii9pfPDKYV7+4uSfbMC5vQyjYnDZq8RE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE3D0CsnnkbG6bnNmbJFP8M1nWxTCUZtTTNptM2+ZWKA5KwVp/FyMUij8LxIfNxamTHAiRvHM0qO8LXXQbf7WE= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:f510:b0:268:93d:b93c with SMTP id cs16-20020a17090af51000b00268093db93cmr4952393pjb.13.1691258195700; Sat, 05 Aug 2023 10:56:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2023 10:56:24 -0700 Message-ID: To: Sean DuBois Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net, libreqos Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] Easiest/most effective way to test software against adverse networks? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2023 17:56:37 -0000 GREAT to hear from you sean! (I added you as "accept" to the bloat list, but did not subscribe you. You can subscribe if you want to stay on) I am delighted to see all the places pion is popping up now, most recently I hear it is in matrix=C2=B4s stacked SFU implementation? That is a very interesting case of multiple control loops, that makes my head hurt. We have very few tests for videoconferencing performance in the world today. I have no idea how good any of the ones I have heard of, are. Have you looked over what the FCC uses? Samknows? Cloudflare? Do you have one or more you like? This paper that just went by was quite pleasing: https://tma.ifip.org/2023/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2023/06/tma2023-final= 37.pdf But I do not know enough about their method. I have been hoping, with the public testbeds the libreqos project runs, and/or with the co-operation of one or more of the ISPs that use it, to somehow be able to accurately test & simulate the behaviors of videoconferencing traffic, but someone with funding, interest and time, has not shown up yet. (we know it is superlative, as most calls about videoconferencing problems just vanish on deployment of libreqos) We are able now (via ebpf) to gather and analyze all sorts of stats at scale, and substitute different qdiscs like fifo or pie, than the ones (fq_codel, cake) we use in production. We do not have a good wifi or lte emulation however. So you are welcome to attempt to leverage our testbed for your analyses or setup your own. The source code for libreqos is on github. The main server has a demo here: https://payne.taht.net - click "bandwidth test", drill down - but is only testing greedy and voip-like traffic in the test suite, presently. I am passionately interested in further understanding how well google congestion control is working in the field today, as well as in other videoconferencing methods. Please feel free to also drop by in the chat: https://matrix.to/#/#libreqos:matrix.org On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 10:37=E2=80=AFAM Sean DuBois via Bloat wrote: > > I am working on improving Pion's Google Congestion Control algorithm http= s://github.com/pion/interceptor/tree/master/pkg/gcc. As I start to use it i= n more real world networks I find flaws. > > How are people testing software today? Is 'Traffic Control' the best opti= on? > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat -- Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DbxmoBr4cBKg Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos