From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk0-x22b.google.com (mail-qk0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4A823B2A4 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:56:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id d130-v6so10106343qkc.2 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 12:56:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OywAkeAh4Y61+dSAOFw9AbUphvGMhu3EeA2ErRbeZdg=; b=Y4imJ3CNf0xPRYuGR+0LprwseccYYMgZgbtFh7gGiQ2oGwQWCDY9Ve2BsmAtWD+cwD DSt9ic6Zwfg1d4eW2IekzH82VYz6Jsti/8quVQD9xnTXMndx7OUkUmrx5mIHVvKnWzKf eN01HLlUEhpn69QaDG3dtgLmM/i72AY3Wysht57dCzXGDyk2N5vadPS5a3BN+ZWjaOX7 GYbIitTxqD0LnpbeJAvPzNgHMXTtL5nrfZ4M2N21Bqjwpe9MtP6rd/EA4PDunuOuv1gd A0Rfie9uG/WlX8qcrz71QoGqKH1PwG8s1eRZJfFgL1F4cCPOyj0NyGcYy6yASYbmSh1L fEIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OywAkeAh4Y61+dSAOFw9AbUphvGMhu3EeA2ErRbeZdg=; b=YruhuxW7MYfvGkvv/u/WfK2YrPj8rB0OFPxnLd66bt32KTBLfhUpiVzksHeJEX5ec4 vqtSi+W2lb40kz/PjTkS9j1XjlgifKsPyvDseAj4TDhLaYr8omctGX19TQrB8dB2QrZD KYR9k2o/wFD6jzM+6e2H8gLENzEKgKlYCwVYc1P+DFYfjWOoTf5S9oh2caWWqwtu4Eu3 7H7MZqN2Y18qdSlipoEdtohR+KZxi4kdwLpZPzld6Zt1FOPgNJoFuYY5AwS/Z5hnNrg9 WXA9m1XoccloAbiLqgaS0XpbLtijsFKmNN4ZEm6s4WLRIbCERQPqPrSyhmHUGANM46qf 38yw== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E1PG9v/PwFhdeRTiZzgxHWNZFJY5HJC9roXtXVxTmn9Z0qTi31h Yve395kjjXq9+mu1CMNs1t8kf+PgSq3gflb01EVjFQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJCCmy9lwTHEpa91c3ZBZrpdj07uFqZzvEmO7TUePyO+v7OBZuzbAe2q73isyZR22MYNpW7qGl7lPDi4ybSmDY= X-Received: by 2002:a37:646:: with SMTP id 67-v6mr11062378qkg.35.1529351816205; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 12:56:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:aed:24f0:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 12:56:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <686ECD4B-0F21-408E-B129-42E87724EA0C@csail.mit.edu> References: <686ECD4B-0F21-408E-B129-42E87724EA0C@csail.mit.edu> From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 12:56:55 -0700 Message-ID: To: Hari Balakrishnan Cc: bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] copa congestion control X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 19:56:56 -0000 On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 12:45 PM, wrote: > Thanks, Dave, for the comments. The paper does have results comparing to = Cubic-over-sfqCodel in a couple of sections. For example, "In an experiment= to test RTT-fairness, Copa, Cubic, Cubic over CoDel and Newreno obtained J= ain fairness indices of 0.76, 0.12, 0.57 and 0.37 respectively (higher the = better).=E2=80=9D Figure 6 in the paper illustrates. It is not clear from the paper it was actually sfqcodel under test at any point. The codel results look like codel results. My largely empirical analysis is that delay based tcp's work great against fq_codel derived aqms, even competing against cubic or bbr. In the case of copa I would expect the loss based portion of the algo to rarely engage, and the relative smoothness-es of copa for rate changes to work quite well against the smoother rate sharing flow-queuing generally achieves. Not clear if you were using tcp pacing, either. Got patches? Test scripts? > > Most of the other results were obtained over real-world paths, or via tra= ce-driven emulation where the traces were obtained over real paths. In thos= e cases we are not sure how to compare with AQM. Well, I would certainly love it if one day y'all tore apart https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/atc17/atc17-hoiland-jorgense= n.pdf and https://arxiv.org/abs/1804.07617 against whatever you are dreaming up. :) > > Hari > >> On Jun 18, 2018, at 3:09 PM, Dave Taht wrote: >> >> Looks promising, like all papers do... >> >> https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/nsdi18/nsdi18-arun.pdf >> >> Keep hoping folk will try their CC-scheme de-jure against one of the exi= sting >> aqm designs.... >> >> -- >> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht >> CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> http://www.teklibre.com >> Tel: 1-669-226-2619 > --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619