From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi0-x233.google.com (mail-oi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F23821F185; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 08:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-f51.google.com with SMTP id v63so4598021oia.10 for ; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 08:37:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=6gFu7iu/nn6rhbOZgGEwQIB+YcYYXRv7ITiLIzDTK6Y=; b=iMlQT0R7SHqLAb5c9bj19DbpTwar98YtJf+UKx8oLsI355WNVR6CkfD8Yn6fo4yq6p zf28mlfrWips1cKO4oroUmYrQR9sWdO4X7eMauu/KwREnOlmXpjoENku+SiJxlJj2you EnVGlY6mvk7NSSaYcBHwUXcKsMNkZNi6pdO8CunWmMPYzUvcWW7drvcGTI9YBSxGxgJN ZfEEerHxU0E7ntC0uP8XBe6gjSqa2V0BVAku44sPSOaJjTLYIJI8e7IF6AMUDt5eCa77 WP+gkTS7Am/yl51EogFhV64ueNMe5y5UD5VSkw345ernaPWUjCadEj3sHLld409ACYli AAog== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.60.167 with SMTP id i7mr33617411oer.41.1409672250396; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 08:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.227.76 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 08:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.227.76 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 08:37:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7D8C9C42-43E7-431E-B237-84B0937C81A0@gmail.com> References: <87ppfijfjc.fsf@toke.dk> <4FF4917C-1B6D-4D5F-81B6-5FC177F12BFC@gmail.com> <4DA71387-6720-4A2F-B462-2E1295604C21@gmail.com> <0DB9E121-7073-4DE9-B7E2-73A41BCBA1D1@gmail.com> <7D8C9C42-43E7-431E-B237-84B0937C81A0@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 08:37:30 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: Jonathan Morton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0158bab4bc24f8050216e50a Cc: "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] Comcast upped service levels -> WNDR3800 can't cope... X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 15:37:31 -0000 --089e0158bab4bc24f8050216e50a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sep 2, 2014 6:41 AM, "Jonathan Morton" wrote: > > > On 1 Sep, 2014, at 9:32 pm, Dave Taht wrote: > > >>> It would be cool to be able to program the ethernet hardware itself to > >>> return completion interrupts at a given transmit rate (so you could > >>> program the hardware to be any bandwidth not just 10/100/1000). Some > >>> hardware so far as I know supports this with a "pacing" feature. > >> > >> Is there a summary of hardware features like this anywhere? It'd be nice to see what us GEM and RTL proles are missing out on. :-) > > > > I'd like one. > > Is there at least a list of drivers (both wired and wireless) which are BQL enabled? If GEM is not in that list, it might explain why the PCI bus gets jammed solid on my PowerBook. A fairly current list (and the means to generate a more current one) is at: https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/codel/wiki/Best_practices_for_benchmarking_Codel_and_FQ_Codel > > > There are certain 3rd party firmwares like octeon's > > where it seems possible to add more features to the firmware > > co-processor, in particular. > > Octeon is basically a powerful, multi-core MIPS64 SoC that happens to have Ethernet hardware attached, and is available in NIC form. These "NICs" look like miniature motherboards in PCIe-card format, complete with mini-SIMM slots. Utter overkill for normal applications; they're meant to do encryption on the fly, and were originally introduced as Ethernet-less coprocessor cards for that purpose. At least they represent a good example of what high-end MIPS is like these days. > > The original Bigfoot KillerNIC was along those lines, too, but slightly less overdone. It still managed to cost $250+, and Newegg still lists a price in that general range despite being permanently out of stock. As well as running Linux on the card itself, the drivers apparently replaced large parts of the Windows network stack in the quest for efficiency and low latency. Results varied; Anandtech suggested that the biggest improvements probably came on cheaper PCs, whose owners wouldn't be able to justify such a high-priced NIC - and that was in 2007. > > I can't tell what the newer products under the Killer brand (taken over by Qualcomm/Atheros) really are, but they are sufficiently reduced in cost, size and complexity to be integrated into "gamer" PC motherboards and laptops, and they respond to being driven like standard (newish) Atheros hardware. In particular, it's unclear whether they do most of their special sauce in software (so Windows-specific) or firmware. It is also the chip in the Edgerouter line of products and a few others. > > Comments I hear sometimes seem to imply that *some* Atheros hardware runs internal firmware. Whether that is strictly wireless hardware, or whether it extends into Ethernet, I can't yet tell. Since it's widely deployed, it would theoretically be a good platform for experimentation - but in practice? The ath10k has a cpu and firmware. The ath9k does not. > > > tc qdisc add dev eth0 cake bandwidth 50mbit diffservmap std > > Or even having the "diffservmap std" part be in the defaults. I try not to spend too much mental effort understanding diffserv - it's widely misunderstood, and most end-user applications ignore it. Supporting the basic eight precedences, and maybe some userspace effort to introduce marking, should be enough. The various ietf wgs seem to think AFxx is a useful concept. > > I like the name, though. :-) It is partially a reference to a scene in the 2010 sequel to 2001. > > - Jonathan Morton > --089e0158bab4bc24f8050216e50a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sep 2, 2014 6:41 AM, "Jonathan Morton" <chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 1 Sep, 2014, at 9:32 pm, Dave Taht wrote:
>
> >>> It would be cool to be able to program the ethernet hardw= are itself to
> >>> return completion interrupts at a given transmit rate (so= you could
> >>> program the hardware to be any bandwidth not just 10/100/= 1000). Some
> >>> hardware so far as I know supports this with a "paci= ng" feature.
> >>
> >> Is there a summary of hardware features like this anywhere?= =C2=A0 It'd be nice to see what us GEM and RTL proles are missing out o= n.=C2=A0 :-)
> >
> > I'd like one.
>
> Is there at least a list of drivers (both wired and wireless) which ar= e BQL enabled?=C2=A0 If GEM is not in that list, it might explain why the P= CI bus gets jammed solid on my PowerBook.

A fairly current list (and the means to generate a more curr= ent one) is at:

https://www.bufferbloat.= net/projects/codel/wiki/Best_practices_for_benchmarking_Codel_and_FQ_Codel<= /a>

>
> > There are certain 3rd party firmwares like octeon's
> > where it seems possible to add more features to the firmware
> > co-processor, in particular.
>
> Octeon is basically a powerful, multi-core MIPS64 SoC that happens to = have Ethernet hardware attached, and is available in NIC form.=C2=A0 These = "NICs" look like miniature motherboards in PCIe-card format, comp= lete with mini-SIMM slots.=C2=A0 Utter overkill for normal applications; th= ey're meant to do encryption on the fly, and were originally introduced= as Ethernet-less coprocessor cards for that purpose.=C2=A0 At least they r= epresent a good example of what high-end MIPS is like these days.
>
> The original Bigfoot KillerNIC was along those lines, too, but slightl= y less overdone.=C2=A0 It still managed to cost $250+, and Newegg still lis= ts a price in that general range despite being permanently out of stock.=C2= =A0 As well as running Linux on the card itself, the drivers apparently rep= laced large parts of the Windows network stack in the quest for efficiency = and low latency.=C2=A0 Results varied; Anandtech suggested that the biggest= improvements probably came on cheaper PCs, whose owners wouldn't be ab= le to justify such a high-priced NIC - and that was in 2007.
>
> I can't tell what the newer products under the Killer brand (taken= over by Qualcomm/Atheros) really are, but they are sufficiently reduced in= cost, size and complexity to be integrated into "gamer" PC mothe= rboards and laptops, and they respond to being driven like standard (newish= ) Atheros hardware.=C2=A0 In particular, it's unclear whether they do m= ost of their special sauce in software (so Windows-specific) or firmware.

It is also the chip in the Edgerouter line of products and a= few others.

>
> Comments I hear sometimes seem to imply that *some* Atheros hardware r= uns internal firmware.=C2=A0 Whether that is strictly wireless hardware, or= whether it extends into Ethernet, I can't yet tell.=C2=A0 Since it'= ;s widely deployed, it would theoretically be a good platform for experimen= tation - but in practice?

The ath10k has a cpu and firmware. The ath9k does not.

>
> > tc qdisc add dev eth0 cake bandwidth 50mbit diffservmap std
>
> Or even having the "diffservmap std" part be in the defaults= .=C2=A0 I try not to spend too much mental effort understanding diffserv - = it's widely misunderstood, and most end-user applications ignore it.=C2= =A0 Supporting the basic eight precedences, and maybe some userspace effort= to introduce marking, should be enough.

The various ietf wgs seem to think AFxx is a useful concept.=

>
> I like the name, though.=C2=A0 :-)

It is partially a reference to a scene in the 2010 sequel to= 2001.

>
> =C2=A0- Jonathan Morton
>

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