From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-vb0-x22f.google.com (mail-vb0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96D1321F1B8 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 16:24:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vb0-f47.google.com with SMTP id e21so419084vbm.6 for ; Thu, 07 Mar 2013 16:24:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=POarL90y65fD2T0AadtUAlaYaYKlygMjcnfgbEWFRkA=; b=NRHjimWUY7Py0gyeFZSz25HMgAajdxm13sGf7KfDvbCW1SpHO0A5s+to50wTrRDT0R 17dygQVaFSCXCMRA8fSpqHJiufEKCjNGW2/IY+061iScTuBNHmCoYHtGHA16xDY0ifxC vzBV3gFttTr+NFgF5VUuFEcN+jsmi563gzg8ac8YxfCo6zH6dBsYTV2pKOLoc2sMFYbM wNScTp8VDKz8U0Fm/9dDWnYp/yArefqUf+96TvCVTiBolWSXNNetqjt9YhqgSs0TmQJN UwrtHsmBENKEP3CRqmOpRGmi1UZdoeV1/825RPrpV3q9GlY+3OgIILecWRuUiz4r9CNL PVRQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.65.73 with SMTP id v9mr110964vds.30.1362702283550; Thu, 07 Mar 2013 16:24:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.169.77 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 16:24:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 19:24:43 -0500 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: David Lang Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3071cab48beb3a04d75ed9f0 Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] Advice for dual wifi home network X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 00:24:44 -0000 --20cf3071cab48beb3a04d75ed9f0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 7:09 PM, David Lang wrote: > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, Dave Taht wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Jonathan Morton > >wrote: >> >> >>> On 8 Mar, 2013, at 1:22 am, Sandy McArthur wrote: >>> >>> I'm looking to setup a home network with two APs connected by ethernet= . >>>> >>> I think I understand the default network settings for use as a single >>> cerowrt network but I'm struggling how to wrap my brain around how a >>> second >>> router should be configured so that the second access point isn't just >>> another level of NAT deeper inside the first router. >>> >>>> >>>> Internet ---- cerowrt A ---- cerowrt B >>>> >>>> Configuring the B router is what is confusing me. >>>> >>> >>> You will need four devices, if your modem is not itself a router: >>> >>> Modem ----- Router (does NAT) >>> | | >>> AP AP (both in bridge mode) >>> >>> - Jonathan Morton >>> >>> >> Bridging bad idea in modern age. Routing good. Just the two cero devices >> he >> has is fine., >> > > Bridging is bad, but bridging with the ability to move from AP to AP can > be far better than two routers and the user has to manually disconnect fr= om > one (breaking all existing connections) and attach to the other. > Depends on signal strength. I'd rather reconnect to wifi box "upstairs", clearly marked as such, when upstairs. I'd rather my wifi boxes live on different channels, so devices in each part of the house get more bandwidth, less errors/retries and lower latency. In the case of persistent connections these days I mostly use mosh.mit.eduinstead of ssh, and mosh survives moving from any network to any network and even suspend/resume. That was my main use of persistent connections, admittedly. That's me. Now, cero's preference for routing over bridging comes from the science part, in that it was impossible to analyze the behavior of bridged wifi/wired networks when we started, so we broke apart the 2.4 ghz, 5.xghz and ethernet networks started exploring what it would take to make routing easier and better. Along the way, for example, babel gained authentication. It certainly is possible to bridge or only partially bridge cero, it's just more complex than routing it, presently. Secondly, and I know I'm weird, I still generally use ahcp and babel on my laptops and thus regain the ability to move from AP to AP, as well as act as a mesh node for such, as well as move from ethernet to wireless and back, transparently, without dropping connections. That's a bit of bleeding edge technology that few have tried... and has become harder and harder to use on unhackable android devices, in particular. > David Lang > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > --=20 Dave T=E4ht Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html --20cf3071cab48beb3a04d75ed9f0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 7:09 PM, David La= ng <david@lang.hm> wrote:
On Thu, 7 Mar 2013, Dave Taht wrote:

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>wrote:


On 8 Mar, 2013, at 1:22 am, Sandy McArthur wrote:

I'm looking to setup a home network with two APs connected by ethernet.=
=A0I think I understand the default network settings for use as a single cerowrt network but I'm struggling how to wrap my brain around how a se= cond
router should be configured so that the second access point isn't just<= br> another level of NAT deeper inside the first router.

Internet ---- cerowrt A ---- cerowrt B

Configuring the B router is what is confusing me.

You will need four devices, if your modem is not itself a router:

Modem =A0----- =A0Router (does NAT)
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 | =A0 =A0|
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0AP =A0 =A0AP =A0 (both in bridge mode)

=A0- Jonathan Morton


Bridging bad idea in modern age. Routing good. Just the two cero devices he=
has is fine.,

Bridging is bad, but bridging with the ability to move from AP to AP can be= far better than two routers and the user has to manually disconnect from o= ne (breaking all existing connections) and attach to the other.

Depends on signal strength. I'd rat= her reconnect to wifi box "upstairs", clearly marked as such, whe= n upstairs. I'd rather my wifi boxes live on different channels, so dev= ices in each part of the house get more bandwidth, less errors/retries and = lower latency.

In the case of persistent connections these days I mostly use mosh.mit.edu instead of ssh, and mosh survives= moving from any network to any network and even suspend/resume. That was m= y main use of persistent connections, admittedly.

That's me.

Now, cero's preference for routing over bridg= ing comes from the science part, in that it was impossible to analyze the b= ehavior of bridged wifi/wired networks when we started, so we broke apart t= he 2.4 ghz, 5.xghz and ethernet networks started exploring what it would ta= ke to make routing easier and better.

Along the way, for example, babel gained authentication.

It cert= ainly is possible to bridge or only partially bridge cero, it's just mo= re complex than routing it, presently.

Secondly, and I know I'm = weird, I still generally use ahcp and babel on my laptops and thus regain t= he ability to move from AP to AP, as well as act as a mesh node for such, a= s well as move from ethernet to wireless and back, transparently, without d= ropping connections.

That's a bit of bleeding edge technology that few have tried... and= has become harder and harder to use on unhackable android devices, in part= icular.


David Lang
_______________________________________________=
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net<= /a>
= https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat




--
Dave T=E4ht

= Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscrib= e.html=20 --20cf3071cab48beb3a04d75ed9f0--