From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg1-x534.google.com (mail-pg1-x534.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::534]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 215913CB37; Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:58:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-pg1-x534.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-5bddf66ed63so981860a12.1; Thu, 16 Nov 2023 13:58:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700171880; x=1700776680; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wY9PC4Vt3u/KJOJQsM9N9sMc1UOqG7jW3koFIyK0FR8=; b=mR3vpdkdVAH4f5bcE6nN4/uJJqbs1JJ2IO5JMoyhgP8wsJmJkfzsFFk1RIkk6EHMyO dof1URTpDXWy06eLRsq8Ev9bHMsB6t1/Qk4vxwp9gdKE1XxRryf+GZGMl03fIFffHeMr osEfY65muxs/kq0ek6uQFxHjrx9o/18YiRQ7UnYCT2Q3ATZibcsNo6Crya/Ev95sz84w UIBSzw/j2CjaQhC5rkcEAkPpLF6CwaU6syDaXeiJNV5azyAkwXvROO/hr3O8bFX9qZ0w upQjAwtjWSnLPvPfMziYp9y5GVJPEte593x9/SsmVs8n3KLB1G6XCjiFHFgWLtxruAjZ pKZw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700171880; x=1700776680; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=wY9PC4Vt3u/KJOJQsM9N9sMc1UOqG7jW3koFIyK0FR8=; b=dBg2gpjzCxUIsf5pE1wY9crcP+U4WxNJC0iZO6TomZcVmxCBJ5QsWGl7oq4KO0m9lX QLf0MCmkjYclcq5JedSuVIbB2SrTs2ZHOvHazkIE+7XbA+gScULOrTIY+3tYg9NIuZBg YpYqprP5N9M023N8xy9FD0uDHk7u3yiAblQLKTGP9oY85gckf3yNRUrRNxNCeuFWXxMg 0fbVTm8Dn9wmvtiPJBHMRzJn0CrZg5iMNF0Mbx7ye2s1T4KK3hEAAdRg+pHODSrg2l0I kZg4s5s6EkYWwMj6AY1IMWp6lxFOdj9XeSGozhAPWIUIf6/g9IM9hiAxW6INLjljapGn pbDg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyhMKnIKW5zizJz8wIyHH0Q+DM6mALlO5VVhATIjtQRlDWQvTXJ Xw4l4DTtxXvJDugq4ntOr11u6WJSOZOttFP/K01Sl9MHy0I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEBiEQvT9BZPn9WUBUa17V4POarRld1+aM9Fp2P8axJHKCktycRHFAGD6EU0oBmofp/HSBJT2iN3cOCw9NChmc= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:4a05:b0:280:23e1:e4dd with SMTP id kk5-20020a17090b4a0500b0028023e1e4ddmr4366487pjb.17.1700171879751; Thu, 16 Nov 2023 13:57:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:57:47 -0500 Message-ID: To: joy.hirsch@yale.edu, bloat , =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspect?= =?UTF-8?Q?s_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Bloat] separable processes for live in-person and live zoom-like faces X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 21:58:01 -0000 Dear Joy: good paper that extends the idea of zoom fatigue into something closer to zoom-induced somnolence. Thanks for doing this kind of detailed measurements! I would be very interested in a study of brain activity while varying latency alone as the variable for videoconferencing. One being say, a live video feed between the participants (0 latency) vs zoom (at 500ms), or with one jittering around, or one at, say 60ms vs 500ms. I tend to be much happier after a day using "galene.org" which tries for minimum latency than zoom, and still find my ability to interact quickly across a dinner table hard to get into after too many hours on it. Are y'all pursuing further studies? The link to the paper is mildly puzzling in that the token is required, and I am assuming that perhaps it is generating a watermarked version differently on every download? https://watermark.silverchair.com/imag_a_00027.pdf?token=3DAQECAHi208BE49Oo= an9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAzQwggMwBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggMhMIIDHQIBADC= CAxYGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMBvAQsisJ_ABhWglzAgEQgIIC5womb1HIyE= -rX0v_xte9EwVGyabIjMO6g80txKAFqHmQPVEv7FostAfIK-4yXUZnSyLivNxp6pummVVwxB_kC= JEyG2DtAH2R8ywkWTTjGw22vpotfz5injZM6fMRQNyTq8dcjtMTTFpEjbsrbupEoMFo7Z0wxqV8= bmbPD8xO6hu1T8I8gg5579PZNHt7-PMNgqJVlEaxPY3nMvc1XkKYdh1RIhFetQkAdhhro2eWfu_= njMvzdRWVeN2ohY6OnSJSDljWiWxyUOqnKX6tps2XFtVBWUh2sE3HK-EsI-w0EmpBlAC7huyQsX= kXW7tmPOwA7yiGQm4uSfcOn_EKGhvzhjHsdP8Mm1QJat6_rWSPZZGwhFzPB2Wl92DDfiSOesKKQ= Bv_OvmGc3FUmFAhqIeAlzlyNkdBydk2hQqvS46OTGfdBEvwpIH_AZclDiLeuyJPP5v2YaoByFQ7= w4uXHMyNhEo5mR2_pQ3WM7CpzknZixRvA5TQySW830iH0k00QZwt6a3nphgV6R4int5Pl-QdmCK= zFoJ2EuPIBKvG9H5yBq18E6r1jyk1mdFKpo0-OEpLNIBpGm-1SomHw2qo5uCRWoAW6MO7K-sKZo= kirXGgJ7rIdRznq3BXvYxFKVn7tqJlIAAX6qDrC0bkefj8PEweuk2zIraj1Ri3otbdX3h0zBsKg= mdY6qiOn8LtyxIy3vvXLnbiaIColztgAt1cHuI6b0w3rLg7BGSE2cetBDTyGS9OS0NKq91xqljw= DAZBFkuKwtfYLzxIeeBy4KrG-PBqGtUEholGjHHyKCwxytw12qvgrTjdX7cXhYJSrs-HBJtRgiP= 5Yb6DJAQrlqEKeGnyTlPv2o3jNVvT0CZ9zWX8Qm0O6wiGo1PqpxCM3VLw0VXVsWcHJ39eLYN30G= uHznYCaH5INdtgZoJdQbmZO3o_tF7itz1uYHItxNK_ZQ3oFKoUQd0e7sx51xaFj6VnNNo39Ms3m= dyEQOEp --=20 :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos