From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt0-x241.google.com (mail-qt0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDACB3B2A4 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x241.google.com with SMTP id d3-v6so3906888qto.1 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 12:17:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mpXhslHCxibJ2Rz/AecMEF2VUhLELL0cHyDfn0grB98=; b=OIzI4Gle6qvM+dySZD/n225OYhCQ2WUe0EPxYgFSOW78ANrbyrYkTvxNdQAKutzScd dOqMvjMp0diubyQDzEXzRfLCT3ZQhbriWsu/FkPkJ9yFFiHPvyD23bycFWhHEJiu6t7b 58lIUKLBYEBCVayp1j4LsObszHHVovwou6jOEBZILLA0WZFu8ZAY2RxCBKxKvGk2B/kE Os1QrhVNEUoSebDzXPvhsg+5EfaYz/fgqOdsNMHR/Pws4qTwS/Kksb8S550IllN3SVFe /KGyEgfBaZ2BfQVqX2M06XPVXl4YBStAukOJvGsLnntdwH5aL7aJwBWEY7S25EiVyNM8 Racw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mpXhslHCxibJ2Rz/AecMEF2VUhLELL0cHyDfn0grB98=; b=ndBL/18QmKpQqUXc6UJdrWhTJ4o84eSAUNSsoFt8Y0s7p0P8WOJbLuoH2KcnXvhAjx ETJ5iWVf6qI2yFjo4ystMbChflc/FNBpKjwBn3U3jm0nUQvGPxxO2gAoo3DNN0PK6DZI c7/lWWJZGsG6/0yoQLwSwrVVlu8hNFGruG8NAdtYcvMKF2qlydhKNLNUNoTtRKjV8xpY QBsOmb7Q+Iq7tDxlqhgjhZpBmhVSo0eNyNeQzZWZUAy9Ejx0jTnpSPHNQFeAMnVwz6MM yyoR8TD11ch+fBF/U1IMJDa1Os4fU97OBm+zJZjRsN/RuZEtf65g2RWtnCjyul3anJFc +PKw== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0MWmuo9UK+2VGuwjjepsi0+JwugLT+vcB5e34h+UY2077KiOjx V/BcrVGUnGCvlEtkf2Emlfc5/k9CNsETwZGlMzA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJxJ3yPwmk5XgRGlwLhmz2tPf6T6dMcJkYkuZzQOmfWqWtwDKgSYK629w+BFwjqpT49/y8ogObiF13pDxaHqfk= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:33cf:: with SMTP id d15-v6mr25148064qtb.261.1529608643232; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 12:17:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:aed:24f0:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 12:17:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8f80b36b-ef81-eadc-6218-350132f4d56a@pollere.com> References: <8736xgsdcp.fsf@toke.dk> <838b212e-7a8c-6139-1306-9e60bfda926b@gmail.com> <8f80b36b-ef81-eadc-6218-350132f4d56a@pollere.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 12:17:21 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kathleen Nichols Cc: bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] lwn.net's tcp small queues vs wifi aggregation solved X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 19:17:23 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 9:43 AM, Kathleen Nichols wro= te: > On 6/21/18 8:18 AM, Dave Taht wrote: > >> This is a case where inserting a teeny bit more latency to fill up the >> queue (ugh!), or a driver having some way to ask the probability of >> seeing more data in the >> next 10us, or... something like that, could help. >> > > Well, if the driver sees the arriving packets, it could infer that an > ack will be produced shortly and will need a sending opportunity. Certainly in the case of wifi and lte and other simplex technologies this seems feasible... 'cept that we're all busy finding ways to do ack compression this month and thus the two big tcp packets =3D 1 ack rule is going away. Still, an estimate, with a short timeout might help. Another thing I've longed for (sometimes) is whether or not an application like a web browser signalling the OS that it has a batch of network packets coming would help... web browser: setsockopt(batch_everything) parse the web page, generate all your dns, tcp requests, etc, etc setsockopt(release_batch) > Kathie > > (we tried this mechanism out for cable data head ends at Com21 and it > went into a patent that probably belongs to Arris now. But that was for > cable. It is a fact universally acknowledged that a packet of data must > be in want of an acknowledgement.) voip doesn't behave this way, but for recognisable protocols like tcp and perhaps quic... > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619