From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi0-x236.google.com (mail-oi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 259FB3B25E for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 20:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x236.google.com with SMTP id w184so54667485oiw.2 for ; Wed, 01 Jun 2016 17:58:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LGDQjKMX8s4THqQTXTXNLRx2X0M24oBYnE3yRH+4Ddk=; b=zar/dSjnDxk3GMu4oFtFz6AivpkUJoGLR9zMTmNvsZYeRhMpm6FwMI7mK0bXZDegBk MX2CtNUtt/addCuZcQpcd9zWtgDYWr2W2oWoBBPUQg8Rp+7/ZdIK24LOf3B7W2ttKIUo ukZpiTJZS1fB6ZlxWFXDkiM1UaDB2MiaYWEUZ0Ns3i1irdB1mAmpExn7703rk9cdyHxy Yy6cVpZRbLTyrBYRZbq/W9eHJU/fuHSEO7NZtQ+it24tgfuExxe6Y2YZRBDw1YERQZKH iKOyU9EiDcxWhi5pO2ge1MdMmfzyqMQOQqYQeoaRylzwaon2dGaCWqC06nESa++a+TRV tYtw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LGDQjKMX8s4THqQTXTXNLRx2X0M24oBYnE3yRH+4Ddk=; b=eRGNmMelSbWa2EtNqZfpxW6AGpOvsRD1K+eivL7mNs+TS2J8I1VXSMqu0wxJ5WanIH qemWZb+asZSELXihJzgxGK4a2rB4JANZ8LRuzUcOorRkf5t0pq4hNvOCLu+vOzNUzQNH okb685oMrm/L0vXRhA7q7G+XEoSWn5x67ScPNFrghmUTFlrBXGqOky9A7Q0QF7s/7gjw pj+VZGemPXZQUl9W6/NI7UN5lK9KY2ipq0NnlYdSwIF6xzhYEbyg+TANxmNgEgu9t3dU 5cuy7TePVN4peB4IGum64AWY4lx9L4dDDMCaHI3jL9FrOR4jiolaRMGeaLea4ncVKAvB jxlA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKdomnSvQCHz3RyTgqyxMict+6kMiCQTC+Tv65nqgMeNgS5yL1CaA2CAWswCu9zr7EFwS9L07q0RTKQEA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.216.84 with SMTP id p81mr12691090oig.152.1464829095453; Wed, 01 Jun 2016 17:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.229.210 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 17:58:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 17:58:15 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: Alan Jenkins Cc: bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] new public web tests for bufferbloat X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2016 00:58:16 -0000 On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Alan Jenkins wrote: > On 02/06/2016, Alan Jenkins wrote: >> On 01/06/2016, Alan Jenkins wrote: >>> On 01/06/2016, Dave Taht wrote: >>>> see: http://labs.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/ >>>> >>>> (can't test myself, not being in england - can someone there test it >>>> and post results/screenshots?) >>> >>> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=3D1464821570474= 383655 >>> >>> (OpenWrt SQM. ISP _download_ is un-bloated already, for reasonable >>> numbers of streams. Though even with SQM, downloading multiple >>> torrents in Transmission can cause both latency up to 100ms & packet >>> loss). I have generally felt that torrents would be better managed by the ISP's use of tools like fq_codel or cake on their rate limiters, rather than managed on the cpe. a note from my nicaraguan trip - which I will write up more fully later - was that the torrent problem had essentially vanished there in the 5 years I was gone. The cybercafes had dropped from 6 overflowing ones to two (as all the hotels had got their own links), and most tourist and local usage had moved to smartphones *everywhere* rather than laptops. One former cybercafe owner I interviewed said "all they know is what the phone offers" - and "skype and facetime" were all they wanted in addition to web, email, snapchat, whatsapp, and youtube - they didn't know what a torrent was. I found a surprising number of people using whatsapp.... Latencies over the network were often horrible, yet several people noted to me, while talking about it, how much better the wifi was there than in the states. My channel scans showed fewer than 6APs "hearable" everywhere I went (in multiple cases less than 2), and there was little to no 5ghz present. Both the "main" networks I got access to were completely behind private ip address space - the condor.co.ni WISP (in one case) had 3 hops to the next public ip, the cable ISP - *6*. Sigh, an entire country almost entirely behind NAT... I left 2 archer c7v2's behind on those networks to see if they help... and can survive the heat and humidity. The 5 mbit/.5mbit cable link I left one on had over a second of download latency under load, 3 seconds up, before applying sqm - and one WISP link (1.5Mbits symmetric) - over 600ms. Another WISP link - well over 3 seconds sometimes but the problem was often 1-3 hops into their network.... >> >> oops... >> >> the results page above omits the bufferbloat result. Sigh. Can bugs be filed? > The original >> result has a sharing button that requires a Facebook login. Here's >> the screenshot what was their bufferbloated result? >> >> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49925445/bufferbloat.net/thinkbroadb= and.com/2016-06-01%20labs.thinkbroadband.com%20speedtest.png > > Sorry for noise, I should also say: > > The latency: 58ms is due to testing on wifi (I guess it's the minimum > over a number of pings). The "A" grades for bufferbloat do not seem > expandable / clickable > >>>> and: >>>> >>>> https://sourceforge.net/speedtest/ >>>> >>>> which is quite pretty, if mildly confusing. >>>> >>>> >>>> I have issues with the language and testing methodologies, of course, >>>> but it is good to see these arrive. When will speedtest.net get it >>>> right? >> > > > -- > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. >> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? >>> A: Top-posting. >>>> Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software! http://blog.cerowrt.org