From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi0-x230.google.com (mail-oi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A11721F240 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2014 12:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-f48.google.com with SMTP id g201so2900069oib.7 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2014 12:51:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IukJ0Fs4G7adJROPGzHxrXZx4/54a/vU5jukr3/i+Pc=; b=NGHTw1Dx9EpqoqUiL+B0y4GRe5mcvEy3Aew45PQwMiPT73Yrhn/9AtuFVjn/VnNDUU Iz4bcBNeTXVth99+pbSK7B2/v2g5E4AIUWqOuIqDlh7Lhe5UxLUYvBaIi3D7HiiX7aUi VAPsWFxCqLpLgAKlSUIY3rEcThQard5UwQMoInzX6W9NR7OBJ545wuK5/6fLABMEwwtq eZLATQFnbfRFomcExzjZ27JeltLh6hfk36ky78ioF8ASxnluwvMf5W8xjXGzOuDEPkwu ihVZR+dkTO+wYLE/Tln97ReDDgigFGcnTkV4iRR87IPyGHt2zBykla478zEx3Njg0IvF Qnng== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.19.195 with SMTP id h3mr29552833obe.43.1411847470745; Sat, 27 Sep 2014 12:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.227.76 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Sep 2014 12:51:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <26174_1411841235_5426FCD3_26174_14017_1_6lo39ioohhprj9oopywm9h69.1411841227986@email.android.com> References: <26174_1411841235_5426FCD3_26174_14017_1_6lo39ioohhprj9oopywm9h69.1411841227986@email.android.com> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 12:51:10 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: "MUSCARIELLO Luca IMT/OLN" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] RE : I feel an urge to update this X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 19:51:40 -0000 On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 11:07 AM, wrote: > Dave > > I feel like you're rather optimistic about the deployment of fq Hmm? At this point I'm rather sanguine about it. Every new high end home router product entering the market I've tried has it in it under some brand name or another. Admittedly my sample set is biased by anyone advertising better QoS... Take for example netgear's new "nighthawk x4" products' "Dynamic QoS" featu= re. http://snapon.lab.bufferbloat.net/~d/netgear_x4/netgear_x4_22_55_dynamic_qo= s.png This is an enormous improvement on their earlier QoS systems, which weren't deserving of the name. While I don't know for sure that it's fq_codel underneath, it sure looks like it, (from the interleave of the captures also) with an optimization for ping. (I disagree with that, preferring to de-optimize ping, but it does make benchmarks look good. ECN is disabled, sadly enough, and they don't offer options for DSL framing compensation...) The rrul curves for AQM would look very different, and sfq alone would have larger latency spikes on the tcp flows. With netgear, dd-link, buffalo, openwrt barrier breaker and everything derived from it, dd-wrt, ipfire, pfsense, several others I forget, so far on board, that's a pretty clean sweep of the non-isp-based home router market, both with shipping product and aftermarket firmware. On the higher end ubnt is making progress (the enthusiasm over there has to be seen to be believed), mikrotik has shown a bit of interest, and I think some more of the mid-range "cloudy" enterprise wifi makers are paying attention. I know of several ISPs that paid attention and are shipping fq_codel based product, also. Of course there are some problems on the lower end boxes in getting htb to scale, I hope we have some answers for that upcoming. And there's work to be done on many a DSL device for BQL support, and not a lot a sign of life from the head end makers except for tantalizing hints from arris, and there are still issues with doing better classification that would be nice to resolve globally. So we are looking at deployments measured in the millions in the coming year, easily. > Also, you mention uplink in home gateways. There you not only have > bittorrent but also a lot of personal cloud going up, a lot of video call= s. Yes, torrent is a toughie, but I take comfort in that most torrent users are only doing 6 reno flows at a time, and if folk use a three level system like sqm and mark the torrent traffic CS1 (or have DPI as it appears the brand names are doing), we're done there, too. Web traffic (being almost entirely slow start) cuts through torrent traffic like butter, anyway. The jury on videoconferencing on the interactions of fq, aqm, or fq+aqm is still out. Most of the benchmarks I've seen have been taken at very low rates (1-4mbit, where I'm far more interesting in rates like 16/3 and higher), but that is looking good also, in all cases an improvement over drop tail. I would like it if they were protecting the main frame with ecn, at least.... > > There IW10 without fq is going to be bad. In the US your are going to hav= e > pie on cable if I am not wrong...uhm... Well, I hear DOCSIS 3.1 trials w/pie will start mid-next year. If people don't dig pie, they can always slam one of these fancy new boxes in front. But I still dislike IW10 being on by default on boxes not based in the data center. > A simple question - how many T1 lines are left in the world? It really was a simple question, I figured it could have been answered by inspecting a few regulatory databases somewhere.... > >> -- >> Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > > > > -- > Dave T=C3=A4ht > > https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/make-wifi-fast > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu > ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u > falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n > modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/make-wifi-fast