From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ia0-x22b.google.com (mail-ia0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c02::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 100FD21F0B0 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:25:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ia0-f171.google.com with SMTP id z13so3939498iaz.2 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:25:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=lalw8oPljzEnTWtnbxud14oYcDXQzgUh9FaPqfMU/RY=; b=CSRKElBX7SyXYQb4rhC4vj9uGqZbecfcFxkvUgfyW5ui6vSVsON3YfxQkgr9/6lLMl 0U7EG6oNM+HzOjBMIW55V6kTwt8ct0gNItSRdmvShG09xYuFVi5nJA7BKe6/R6TsPBCf ZUPvw/1X0zrkylAgPdz8cS6pWx8Xs9ABU7vHqGoGC99RdSrgs4qBZy/fdBMVDIjyzGKS KUfWhx+5drbUoZhe32TVDeoQpnlsOL6ZXjYjVYuL5QeeHYcZlXhSumeahACumZudxxXe J7LQertVym0sBeSq+kR8OsVgiDjSDitauiPHqEADui8251iXUvzKWzeTvG4iIxg6EIVX pTVg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.106.199 with SMTP id gw7mr6172374igb.27.1361917544910; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:25:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.223.170 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:25:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 17:25:44 -0500 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: Jonathan Morton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f234d6d7a896e04d6a82389 Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] Testing fq_codel on Android Galaxy Nexus AK kernel X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 22:25:46 -0000 --e89a8f234d6d7a896e04d6a82389 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Mario: I read over the thread, don't have the energy to join the forum... Please forward? 1) The patch in that thread increases the default minimum quantum to 500. It should, IMHO, be available go down to 64U, and I in general get better results with smaller quantums than the default. Although 64 is a too small, 256 is not bad. 2) Wifi had 4 queues, not one, it is interesting to setup one fq_codel queue per queue. The various forms of the debloat script do this. 3) "Codel" and "FQ_codel" should not be used synonomously. Codel is a drop strategy, great for controlling queue length. FQ codel combines flow queueing (which interleaves flows together, so, for example, a dns packet or a gaming packet leaps to the head of a queue) with codel, the combination of which seems to be really, really good, if you have minimal driver buffering. 4) The problem on wifi/3g/lte/etc is that there is so much extra buffering at the driver and hardware level that hooking up fq_codel to it is like shaking at the end of a very, very long hose. Some of these phone wifi chips are hooked up via a vastly overbuffered usb bus. Shake all you want at one end of the hose, not a lot will happen. But: It might help a little and I'd love to know more. It would help if people fiddling with this stuff would take a gander at talks by van jacobson, eric dumazet and myself on the subject. http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki/Bloat-videos http://netseminar.stanford.edu/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DWksh2DPHCDI&feature=3Dyoutu.be That said, I'm delighted people are making a start at working on android. I hope myself to get some time this pring to fiddle with android, and I loved seeing the documentation on how to patch in fq_codel on the referred thread. Learning how to hack on a new embedded OS is hard. Simply starting to measure the available buffering in the stack on a given chipset would be good. You can do that by shortening the txqueue and trying an upload, while measuring the delay with ping. Then repeat with a longer txqueuelen, and you can bracket how much buffering lies below to a large extent. The bufferbloat crowd has smashed excess buffering throughout the tcp, qdisc, and ethernet and ADSL portions of the stack over the past year. It would be grand to get some insight as to what else to smash. It's like wackamole, only more fun.... On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Jonathan Morton wro= te: > Since the phone only has control of the bottleneck in the upload > direction, a browse + upload or ping + upload or VoIP + upload test would > be appropriate. It's important to control the link speed as much as > possible to be the same for equivalent tests, and to try several differen= t > network conditions. > > Tests involving heavy downlink traffic would measure bloat at the cell > tower, or at the ISP or access point for wifi tests. > > - Jonathan Morton > On Feb 26, 2013 7:58 PM, "Mario Ferreira" wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> After a small exchange, AK kernel developer has added fq_codel to his >> Galaxy Nexus kernel distribution. >> >> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3D2163790 >> >> Now, he would like to know how to benchmark it to see the advantages. = :) >> >> I know basic tests for desktop: mtr, netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu and >> download + browsing.. >> >> What do you suggest for a wireless only setup such as Android Phone? >> >> Best regards, >> M=E1rio S=E9rgio >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > --=20 Dave T=E4ht Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html --e89a8f234d6d7a896e04d6a82389 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Mario:

I read over the thread, don't have the energy to joi= n the forum... Please forward?

1) The patch in that thread increases= the default minimum quantum to 500. It should, IMHO, be available go down = to 64U, and I in general get better results with smaller quantums than the = default. Although 64 is a too small, 256 is not bad.

2) Wifi had 4 queues, not one, it is interesting to setup one fq_codel = queue per queue. The various forms of the debloat script do this.

3)= "Codel" and "FQ_codel" should not be used synonomously= . Codel is a drop strategy, great for controlling queue length. FQ codel co= mbines flow queueing (which interleaves flows together, so, for example, a = dns packet or a gaming packet leaps to the head of a queue) with codel, the= combination of which seems to be really, really good, if you have minimal = driver buffering.

4) The problem on wifi/3g/lte/etc is that there is so much extra buffer= ing at the driver and hardware level that hooking up fq_codel to it is like= shaking at the end of a very, very long hose. Some of these phone wifi chi= ps are hooked up via a vastly overbuffered usb bus. Shake all you want at o= ne end of the hose, not a lot will happen.

But: It might help a little and I'd love to know more.

It wo= uld help if people fiddling with this stuff would take a gander at talks by= van jacobson, eric dumazet and myself on the subject.

http://www.buf= ferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki/Bloat-videos

http://netseminar.stanford.= edu/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
=3DWksh2DPHCDI&feature=3Dyoutu.be


That said, I'm delighted people are making a start at working o= n android. I hope myself to get some time this pring to fiddle with android= , and I loved seeing the documentation on how to patch in fq_codel on the r= eferred thread. Learning how to hack on a new embedded OS is hard.


Simply starting to measure the available buffering in the stack on = a given chipset would be good. You can do that by shortening the txqueue an= d trying an upload, while measuring the delay with ping. Then repeat with a= longer txqueuelen, and you can bracket how much buffering lies below to a = large extent.

The bufferbloat crowd has smashed excess buffering throughout the tcp, = qdisc, and ethernet and ADSL portions of the stack over the past year. It w= ould be grand to get some insight as to what else to smash. It's like w= ackamole, only more fun....
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Jonathan Morton= <chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:

Since the phone only has control of the bottleneck in the upload directi= on, a browse + upload or ping + upload or VoIP + upload test would be appro= priate. It's important to control the link speed as much as possible to= be the same for equivalent tests, and to try several different network con= ditions.

Tests involving heavy downlink traffic would measure bloat at the cell t= ower, or at the ISP or access point for wifi tests.

- Jonathan Morton

On Feb 26, 2013 7:58 PM, = "Mario Ferreira" <liouxbsd@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

=A0 After a small exchange, AK kernel developer has added f= q_codel to his Galaxy Nexus kernel distribution.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.ph= p?t=3D2163790

=A0 Now, he would like to know how to benchmark it to see t= he advantages. :)

=A0 I know basic tests for desktop: mtr, netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu and download + browsing..

=A0 What do you suggest for a wireless only setup such as A= ndroid Phone?

=A0 Best regards,
=A0=A0=A0 M=E1rio S=E9rgio


_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@list= s.bufferbloat.net
= https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat


_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net<= /a>
= https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat




--
Dave T=E4ht

= Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscrib= e.html=20 --e89a8f234d6d7a896e04d6a82389--