From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-it1-x132.google.com (mail-it1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3E403B29E; Thu, 16 May 2019 10:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-it1-x132.google.com with SMTP id a190so6524157ite.4; Thu, 16 May 2019 07:44:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PBrGIJ1UyRNLsNAgCSWvthUnnnVqk/sIPnGfBNZM2i4=; b=bpSS9uHJ22vQTRAkJNoi8G1pB5uZc3PT5eA8EDi6o3Ec5GjEJBhBWARBJY3R2gSQAk z17aA5G2IkBy+ZSMHoR49vQhrUHIOTI7L0q4g0irOW03RTYN8jA1/o/9YQ1dHUzQKoqh KGfMehT7w1CijOnM7zje5WhxKK67WEX60MTEPikgQWy352C6NjbPOt28iiYtsA4P71ZX FCBsI8hjao+OIPI2tsd+wMCWLOq2D+9TPoZHcPpCuhy75Xac4mN6pHgyeykJbMGbZPir krOr/hkOvmZhaAuHX18gm2eg61OhVHLcCk50ZOZrlS6B2pShtRMjYe9SG6ectHGc8+OM L3iQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PBrGIJ1UyRNLsNAgCSWvthUnnnVqk/sIPnGfBNZM2i4=; b=dtLJOO+0OW5Cq+8EpXvi7o5QCGA0mlmevXJZLisKqfZZma1+0oQhOaWH+Fd/11DuZd T0IfLS7XXIy+VIZxtmLWzW19G20RMg41ugCqGP4kuXz8+QxqI7Zxy1wppt2FycM2tSLB vgjs1vQ+aBFBUgUYaSnrbKWQJD6WSfWUzwkimlObJ864wJFyRka4OrgHqomR245fQpPQ 5wuoIjE99TdQLQggNW7FSY0PK+sYmhzTOMtioHsixpSzEMemaJ93AvB2uMn00J4BV06Z 4PJX06nVxQxlgBpgx/dlLt5s6dycvVtC4uoBhb559vOquH/tcA4cZIinKA1/jE9dP/h8 jOvQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUjJkqNVH62qPfpzQGf1NKH5zU4qxz2jraFh2gzl1c+GjxdQfqm COcn5c+9AQ3Kl4firarUA150Z2K4C++dC621CChhm2WpBIbf0g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz+oXVFI0NLS8D/ljUakgfsGt1+0iwEtOmY8RCzi154if+vHQUCyCsgJqyYQ2TGwaKUp7y/0Nrhj2Mni2mDQ+Y= X-Received: by 2002:a24:2b8b:: with SMTP id h133mr5891860ita.90.1558017886177; Thu, 16 May 2019 07:44:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1558015926.108614198@apps.rackspace.com> In-Reply-To: <1558015926.108614198@apps.rackspace.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 16:44:16 +0200 Message-ID: To: "David P. Reed" Cc: bloat , cerowrt-devel , Make-Wifi-fast Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] Huawei banned by US gov... X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 14:44:47 -0000 One thing I've been trying to do (again) is more outreach outside our direct circles, on various subjects, in various ways. Up until recently I was pretty happy with the overall progress of the fq_codel deployment, and it was things like this not bufferbloat-related that were getting me down the most. Jim, esr, and I wrote letters to the editor on this subject of the washington post, guardian and the economist, recently. This is an ancient technique, but so long as we're persistent about having a (or multiple) letters like that, at a low level of effort, perhaps that is one "new" way to "get through". We need to keep trying various avenues. The rules, though, of letters to the editor is that they have to be unique, and well, give each one a week or three, then try another pub, I figure is unique enough. After a while, perhaps an open letter. I have no idea... but we have to try! More of us, have to try. If someone(s) from here can merely get something on some subject they care about into their local newspaper, it's a plus. I've had quite a lot of solace in playing a ton of rock and roll of late, notably an updated version of "working class hero" that I should sit down and record. Playing the guitar is just about the only way I feel even halfway connected to anything of late. "It gpls me" recently got the most hits of any song I've ever posted. Buying a press release a we did before on the fcc fight, did work, but it was expensive, and never crossed over into the business press. Trying to create an environment when something suddenly becomes "obvious" to a lot of people, requires a supersaturated solution. For all I know the world (I certainly am) is at its breaking point regarding all the security (and bufferbloat!) problems in the computing world and ready to accept something new instead of business as usual. Recently I had one of the weirder things happen in a while. For about a month, I've been using in various public and private conversations an analogy "about me being a scared and scarred survivor of a poetry slam between vogons and bokononists", and realizing how few had read Vonnegut's "cat's cradle" to understand what I meant, fully. Yesterday, or the day before, slashdot had a whole bunch of people refer to that book and I felt a bit less mis-understood. Co-incidence? no idea.... One of the things that cheers me up is that book was published in the early 60s and civilization survived, after, admittedly, getting neck deep in the big muddy. So anyway, here's that song, that has a fascinating history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DuXnJVkEX8O4 and to me applies to a lot of folk, currently in power. Perhaps the times are a changin, too. On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 4:12 PM David P. Reed wrote: > > In my personal view, the lack of any evidence that Huawei has any more go= vernment-controlled or classified compartmented Top Secret offensive Cyberw= ar exploits than Cisco, Qualcomm, Broadcom, Mellanox, F5, NSO group, etc. i= s quite a strong indication that there's no relevant "there" there. > > > > Given the debunking of both the Supermicro and Huawei fraudulent claims (= made by high level "government sources" in the intelligence community), thi= s entire thing looks to me like an attempt to use a fake National Emergency= to achieve Trade War goals desired by companies close to the US Government= agencies (esp. now that the Secretary of Defense is a recent Boeing CEO wh= o profits directly from such imaginary threats). > > > > Now, I think that this "open up the sources" answer is a really good part= of a solution. The other parts are having resiliency built in to our syste= ms. The Internet is full of resiliency today. A balkanized and "sort of air= -gapped" US transport network infrastructure is far more fragile and subjec= t to both random failure and targeted disruption. > > > > But who is asking me? Fear is being stoked. Answers outside the box need to be presented to the purveyors of power and public manipulation... and the public. > > > > > On Thursday, May 16, 2019 5:58am, "Dave Taht" said: > > > And we labor on... > > > > https://tech.slashdot.org/story/19/05/15/2136242/trump-signs-executive-= order-barring-us-companies-from-using-huawei-gear > > > > To me, the only long term way to even start to get out of this > > nightmare (as we cannot trust anyone else's gear either, and we have > > other reminders of corruption like the volkswagon scandal) is to > > mandate the release of source code, with reproducible builds[1], for > > just about everything connected to the internet or used in safety > > critical applications, like cars. Even that's not good enough, but it > > would be a start. Even back when we took on the FCC on this issue, ( > > http://www.taht.net/~d/fcc_saner_software_practices.pdf ) I never > > imagined it would get this bad. > > > > 'round here we did produce one really trustable router in the cerowrt > > project, which was 100% open source top to bottom, which serves as an > > existence proof - and certainly any piece of gear reflashed with > > openwrt is vastly better and more secure than what we get from the > > manufacturer - but even then, I always worried that my build > > infrastructure for cerowrt was or could be compromised and took as > > many steps as I could to make sure it wasn't - cross checking builds, > > attacking it with various attack tools, etc. > > > > Friends don't let friends run factory firmware, we used to say. Being > > able to build from sources yourself is a huge improvement in potential > > trustability - (but even then the famous paper on reflections on > > trusting trust applies). And so far, neither the open source or > > reproducable builds concepts have entered the public debate. > > > > Every piece of hardware nowadays is rife with binary blobs and there > > are all sorts of insecurities in all the core cpus and co-processors > > designed today. > > > > And it isn't of course, just security in huawei's case - intel just > > exited the business - they are way ahead of the US firms in general in > > so many areas. > > > > I have no idea where networked computing can go anymore, particularly > > in the light of the latest MDS vulns revealed over the past few days ( > > https://lwn.net/Articles/788522/ ). I long ago turned off > > hyperthreading on everything I cared about, moved my most critical > > resources out of the cloud, but I doubt others can do that. I know > > people that run a vm inside a vm. I keep hoping someone will invest > > something major into the mill computing's cpu architecture - which > > does no speculation and has some really robust memory and stack > > smashing protection features ( > > http://millcomputing.com/wiki/Protection ), and certainly there's hope > > that risc-v chips could be built with a higher layer of trust than any > > arm or intel cpu today (but needs substancial investment into open > > on-chip peripherals) > > > > This really isn't a bloat list thing, but the slashdot discussion is > > toxic. Is there a mailing list where these sorts of issues can be > > rationally discussed? > > > > Maybe if intel just released all their 5G IP into the public domain? > > > > /me goes back to bed > > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproducible_builds > > > > -- > > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > > CTO, TekLibre, LLC > > http://www.teklibre.com > > Tel: 1-831-205-9740 > > _______________________________________________ > > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel > > --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-205-9740