From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B5C93B29E; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 18:20:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com with SMTP id k84so7445867ybk.3; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 15:20:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=4Rksp0cJ1DihtipPQe21dve3ztT5xDpWwqSExlU27kk=; b=cJg1TWh/Wxo7sGEQFmIA629ExaHEGAGDJVVVUe5hKOHB0CJdeiEepOI39dAAG5bc6+ WNbzjUCSCSJcWHygejWaalAuqZEHUwvyXWW5EI5DVBa3EVhpANMxJla0UNW1GDn52BOQ 3grQPfzJXhIHuRuqFdaaOl8CCsHWlC4BYfF8d9j1vU/UYXCZm9UInNrFlovSBwM2mert NuRVp0rwYN8VuL/MlCKxUPpXf5FTnmtcw+tDTA4WDz2TnC5aslObwVAoVf+4DOmJnYCM yI161uxlnJ2yxTn6lJP53Nj/dp7cSv3oNYggvToE9vGm91JpkCjyXmxYf03i5TqHaTtm cr5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=4Rksp0cJ1DihtipPQe21dve3ztT5xDpWwqSExlU27kk=; b=A5y0C9wtO8/waPf9GQCTu3mqOYv3QvDeMoiGcdzb11vC47UiWRlc/Yn3zxKZhRIAOD NygE1rpqki2AbnU5znp6JzF6mB0p2ShZMjX6kZ6wQw8Da44vUdBTUHCfG/HWwOrHVoA0 LGbUqDyfOwIBam4L42mH42J+d79InPIkpLjSAaOKdxAJieJGz4BIOGkmmk+4BspIoNPe lrJVzPHaUdXKud5Z9331NjLw0PHeIb9TiaFsrWjb1+mT0NGbbA8mYP+EHAQsyMaf0iXQ 9p0XyNSgdS+wGeCzzwNRy1FzKMiSJ2MRBGENdzxm5Yjuky5+8QSbRhM+ha80HDV+y/kw jgkw== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pkfYA+Otu5NL/+riKqGDc71nOWqDy3uZWtaJ5HSwLfG/+vB6j22 ggWU1zbHTCiQNc1SczxL4CiyMeQ/17d/N0Oz5eE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf6Vh0wcKhunKRCLJm4kgcUfVEOXVTMZyqhwxbofVsgkTAT2ypmBL2jbgGMSc55e+764iQQH2LHEbA5RR/VB3Ew= X-Received: by 2002:a25:3801:0:b0:6cf:ef46:e780 with SMTP id f1-20020a253801000000b006cfef46e780mr10305172yba.644.1668381650631; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 15:20:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: dan Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Robert_Chac=C3=B3n?= Cc: Dave Taht , libreqos , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a2c6af05ed625f28" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 11 Dec 2022 08:24:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [Bloat] [LibreQoS] gamebench quote X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 23:20:51 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 16:20:39 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 23:20:51 -0000 --000000000000a2c6af05ed625f28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable nice. I like your color coded speed map as well. Been considering that but also don't want the competition to know exactly what's up, like to keep them on their toes. They've wasted money building into areas that we already have superior service and they get nothing. There's some Sun Tzu quote about that :D On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 4:17 PM Robert Chac=C3=B3n < robert.chacon@jackrabbitwireless.com> wrote: > Same here. We compete primarily against Charter Spectrum in the suburbs. > Gamers and twitch streamers switch to us frequently due to the high uploa= d > bloat and jitter on Spectrum's network. > We made a page on our website > that tries to educate > prospective clients about latency and bloat. I added the GameBench quote = to > it (thanks, Dave!) > Surprisingly, some people do read it and it helps ease their minds about > "speed" when they're used to being bombarded with messaging about needing > gigabit bandwidth. > > > I'm happy enough if TDS and Spectrum take their sweet time figuring out > that latency is important :D > > This! That and their inability to really do whole-home WiFi at scale help= s > WISPs offer a true performance answer to cable internet. > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:56 PM dan via LibreQoS < > libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> This is definitely our focus. We preach low latency first and better >> uploads second, downloads are a distant third. We do have to advertise = the >> faster speeds just to get into the conversation because Spectrum for >> example and now TDS are all about 1G or 2G services. See my other email >> though, Spectrum's latency and jitter is garbage, TDS is actually worse >> than that to many services but I don't have a remote login to a TDS site= at >> the moment. I'm 15ms more from AWS Oregon on TDS than Spectrum, and I'm >> 20ms better than Spectrum on Lumen DIA. >> >> I'm happy enough if TDS and Spectrum take their sweet time figuring out >> that latency is important :D >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:52 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < >> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> https://www.gamebench.net/network-performance-and-gamer-experience-the-= us-edition/ >>> >>> "Overall, the consistently reinforced takeaway is that latency has now >>> clearly overtaken broadband speed as the focus area for network >>> providers seeking to provide =E2=80=93 and guarantee and commercially b= enefit >>> from =E2=80=93 optimum experience in both online multiplayer and cloud >>> gaming." >>> >>> -- >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >>> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366= 665607352320-FXtz >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>> _______________________________________________ >>> LibreQoS mailing list >>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> LibreQoS mailing list >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >> > > > -- > Robert Chac=C3=B3n > CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC > Dev | LibreQoS.io > > --000000000000a2c6af05ed625f28 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
nice.=C2=A0 I like your color coded speed map as well. Bee= n considering that but also don't want the competition to know exactly = what's up, like to keep them on their toes.=C2=A0 They've wasted mo= ney building into areas that we already=C2=A0have superior service and they= get nothing.=C2=A0 There's some Sun Tzu quote about that :D


On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 4:17 PM Robert Chac=C3=B3n <robert.chacon@jackrabbitwireless.co= m> wrote:
Same here. We compete primarily against Charter Spec= trum in the suburbs.
Gamers and twitch streamers switch to us fre= quently due to the high upload bloat and jitter on Spectrum's network.<= /div>
We made a page on our website that tries to educate prospectiv= e clients about latency and bloat. I added the GameBench quote to it (thank= s, Dave!)
Surprisingly, some people do read it and it helps e= ase their minds about "speed" when they're used to being bomb= arded with messaging about needing gigabit bandwidth.

> I'm happy enough if TDS and Spectrum take their sweet time= figuring out that latency is important :D

This! T= hat and their inability to really do whole-home WiFi at scale helps WISPs o= ffer a true performance answer to cable internet.

On Sun, Nov 13,= 2022 at 3:56 PM dan via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote= :
This is definitely our focus.=C2=A0 We preach low latency first and bett= er uploads second, downloads are a distant third.=C2=A0 We do have to adver= tise the faster speeds just to get into the conversation because Spectrum f= or example and now TDS are all about 1G or 2G services.=C2=A0 See my other = email though, Spectrum's latency and jitter is garbage, TDS is actually= worse than that to many services but I don't have a remote login to a = TDS site at the moment.=C2=A0 I'm 15ms more from AWS Oregon on TDS than= Spectrum, and I'm 20ms better than Spectrum on Lumen DIA.=C2=A0=C2=A0<= br>
I'm happy enough if TDS and Spectrum take their sweet time figur= ing out that latency is important :D

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:52 PM Dave Ta= ht via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
https://www.gamebench.net/network-performance-and-= gamer-experience-the-us-edition/

"Overall, the consistently reinforced takeaway is that latency has now=
clearly overtaken broadband speed as the focus area for network
providers seeking to provide =E2=80=93 and guarantee and commercially benef= it
from =E2=80=93 optimum experience in both online multiplayer and cloud
gaming."

--
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.= linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXt= z
Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
LibreQo= S@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
LibreQo= S@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos


--
Robert Chac=C3=B3n

<= /div>
--000000000000a2c6af05ed625f28--