From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm0-x22a.google.com (mail-wm0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19B5E3B2A2 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:31:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-wm0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id g23so78178277wme.1 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 05:31:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uOUto+YFcP++pItlunz3M1UWG0qznNYBkeic45egp2c=; b=Ray+Oq+Gy/+mosylngCnKTgV2AUigId+zM0OErigF6ABxCzCy5CG7ifDY2v3r7uw48 SS7PwWTLoopKrUR0FFsiyoH1AIbzp7XjeiJxwi2KWu5DV2fO/e4gT2O9usmLorJC9KQd mB/DSrwQJ3LeDMV+V1ukvGmTxIR+GLABnJSZrl2sNUqpP7j1pnNdtU0aWuo0U4lr/u2/ cqvbitHDgrMSA1HJ3fH4cG/AAXe6bDpfuzn6X1e3UrnoArwfXMTxSmgkOzTu5PuUiIY3 62xPRVp0FCZ4ouu1dac4LkfXNM8bQHf6ZGmkkIBtf5MwxGkpcnIk2tXOuOfM8TKziOeZ 9+dQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uOUto+YFcP++pItlunz3M1UWG0qznNYBkeic45egp2c=; b=Z/LLEsaSTzAh2r+q/Mlsn1nt6o4T8VL6K/s5+liskNuX8bdotzOYE9gHbBDWU+JPRo dH9Jc8TnC2VpGUyplqE/Lw9tg2gJ0pteB1gc0SPg5PIVBBU9lvxEolnRPXtdmq011A2W 7nXKWYVk65eP1kJhg4EgUWQMqVRDi70rbJATPMWFPLaYna0z6+Sx8AiZZExnwpRDV92K UXB/gsjpjS0SYfhKldxj5t34XQ5pTDfT0ltFVdgrvTtoZpP9LEYfoA3M8QZeUQx1vwqc qqTG1dJTq6XMh8spTw6dtY66XKonhypiqiQG7i860+qAkUgYCGhFtIQ99FCNEolYTky/ VyDg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC00vQ3JkOxgALBylTs77rKCzoWIa5RpQN5xB/wf57ne3iOUKCf91EyY+Nn9OEjjr8l7qLZe7/BzSRG5mzQ== X-Received: by 10.28.24.67 with SMTP id 64mr7065456wmy.136.1479907910078; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 05:31:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.145.155 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 05:31:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <8d72490d-551a-c58f-991a-1750e9af8df9@gmail.com> From: Pedro Tumusok Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 14:31:49 +0100 Message-ID: To: Kelvin Edmison Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114692b847d86b0541f7e94d Subject: Re: [Bloat] fixing bufferbloat in 2017 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 13:31:51 -0000 --001a114692b847d86b0541f7e94d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Kelvin Edmison wrote: > > > > Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 23, 2016, at 3:28 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Nov 2016, Dave Taht wrote: > > I would like to see the industries most affected by bufferbloat - > voip/videoconferencing/gaming,web gain a good recognition of the problem, > how to fix it, and who to talk to about it (router makers and ISPs) > > > It would be great if the realtime communications people (gaming, video, > audio etc) had some kind of help page where people could be pointed to > understand the problem. > > I saw a Youtube video btw, where they had problems with gaming because > "I'm uploading a youtube video at the same time as I am gaming, stupid me". > People don't even realise this is not the way it has to be. > > My take on this is that the problem is fairly well understood in "our" > circles, but the wider audience still doesn't know, and even if they know, > there is nowhere to go to fix it. > > If we can find a product that solves the gaming community problem (they're > one of the people who have "ping" in their applications and who immediately > notices when it's bad), we could perhaps approach someone prominent in that > gaming community and making a video on how to solve the problem. > > "Look here, I did and now I can game and upload a youtube video at the > same time without problems!!!!1111oneoneone" > > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > > The gaming/youtube video is an excellent use case on whim to build. > Simple, compelling, and can easily demonstrate the bufferbloat problem. > > One suggestion would be to talk to the people/web sites that publish > reviews of router and gaming performance. > Who actually cares about or read router reviews? I am guessing a subset of the people that care about lag in FPS games. How about approaching the people that make the post popular games that are affected. Battlefield series is from Dice and they have a main office in Stockholm, Sweden. Given them a demo of a bloat free game and a bloated game and hopefully get them to go to the players through their channels on how to get a better game experience would most likely give a better result. The game developers have their own conferences where they share, so if somebody in a studio ended up doing a presentation at these ones, it would also get the word out and about. There are other games, but I am not a big FPS gamer, so I googled and this came up http://www.gamersdecide.com/pc-game-news/15-most-played-fps-games-2016-pc But we would need a couple of things 1. Establishing contact with the different game development studios 2. Somebody to go and do a demo, shake hands and talk with them. Video, I assume would be less effective. If this something we should try, I can help out with the first point, but the second one probably needs local bufferbloat evangelists. -- Best regards / Mvh Jan Pedro Tumusok --001a114692b847d86b0541f7e94d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Kelvin Edmison <= kelvin@edmison.net<= /a>> wrote:
=

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016, Dave Taht wrote:

I would like to see= the industries most affected by bufferbloat - voip/videoconferencing/gamin= g,web gain a good recognition of the problem, how to fix it, and who t= o talk to about it (router makers and ISPs)

It would be great if the realtime communications people (gam= ing, video, audio etc) had some kind of help page where people could be poi= nted to understand the problem.

I saw a Yo= utube video btw, where they had problems with gaming because "I'm = uploading a youtube video at the same time as I am gaming, stupid me".= People don't even realise this is not the way it has to be.
=
My take on this is that the problem is fairly well u= nderstood in "our" circles, but the wider audience still doesn= 9;t know, and even if they know, there is nowhere to go to fix it.
If we can find a product that solves the gaming co= mmunity problem (they're one of the people who have "ping" in= their applications and who immediately notices when it's bad), we coul= d perhaps approach someone prominent in that gaming community and making a = video on how to solve the problem.

"L= ook here, I did <X> and now I can game and upload a youtube video at = the same time without problems!!!!1111oneoneone"

--
Mikael Abrahamsson =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0email:= swmike@swm.pp.se=
_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net<= br>https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat

The gaming/youtube video is an excell= ent use case on whim to build. Simple, compelling, and can easily demonstra= te the bufferbloat problem.=C2=A0

One suggestion w= ould be to talk to the people/web sites that publish reviews of router and = gaming performance.=C2=A0

Who actually cares about = or read router reviews? I am guessing a subset of the people that care abou= t lag in FPS games.

How about approaching th= e people that make the post popular games that are affected.=C2=A0

Battlefield series is from Dice and they have a main offic= e in Stockholm, Sweden. Given them a demo of a bloat free game and a bloate= d game and hopefully get them to go to the players through their channels o= n how to get a better game experience would most likely give a better resul= t. The game developers have their own conferences where they share, so if s= omebody in a studio ended up doing a presentation at these ones, it would a= lso get the word out and about.

There are other ga= mes, but I am not a big FPS gamer, so I googled and this came up=C2=A0


But we woul= d need a couple of things

1. Establishing contact = with the different game development studios
2. Somebody to go and= do a demo, shake hands and talk with them. Video, I assume would be less e= ffective.

If this something we should try, I can h= elp out with the first point, but the second one probably needs local buffe= rbloat evangelists.

--
Best regards / Mvh
Jan Pedro Tumusok

--001a114692b847d86b0541f7e94d--