From: Jeremy Austin <jeremy@aterlo.com>
To: dan <dandenson@gmail.com>
Cc: Dave Collier-Brown <dave.collier-Brown@indexexchange.com>,
Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>,
Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
Doc Searls <doc@searls.com>, bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
libreqos <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Bloat] [LibreQoS] Enabling a production model
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2023 08:53:56 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CACw=56Li98Q+updA5toLQDikhKv-tzwLTRVKrQcK96M=OPE_ZA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAA_JP8WdJh_jOk6=aYjNsNkfLTo+J0kAPJUeXDV+WTDzQwmnuw@mail.gmail.com>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2086 bytes --]
On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 6:54 AM dan via LibreQoS <
libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> The obvious solution is to foster competition. Anywhere you overlay cable
>> companies with fiber BOTH companies remain and compete against each other
>> and the cable company increases upload speeds. If fiber was so naturally
>> superior, the cable companies would be erased. I have MSP customers in
>> multiple markets with competing techs and it's VERY nice to be able to get
>> fiber and cable or terragraph and cable to a business for resilience. I
>> cannot do that on single product dominated markets. The 'exchange' model
>> above doesn't do it because of that single point of failure of the
>> municipal fiber.
>
>
To say categorically that competition is the only solution disenfranchises
the sparse edge where it doesn’t pay to have a *single* terrestrial
incumbent, let alone two.
Yes, we will have StarLink, and perhaps eventually some competition to it
(Bezos), but there is no escaping the reality that competition in the last
mile destroys value.
Between StarLink densities and this utopia where both fiber and cable can
afford to build (and maintain!) enough customers lie a giant wasteland —
not enough customers for lines, too many for LEO. Fixed Wireless Access
helps, but even in that context competition destroys value.
You can have subsidy (“Broadband for All” OR consumer choice, not both.
At this point I would hold up an Omnibus-podcast-like sign “Compatible With
Marxism”, or “Not Compatible With Marxism”, but I’m not sure which.
$.02
Jeremy
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-03-29 16:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 168+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <mailman.2651.1672779463.1281.starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
[not found] ` <1672786712.106922180@apps.rackspace.com>
[not found] ` <F4CA66DA-516C-438A-8D8A-5F172E5DFA75@cable.comcast.com>
2023-01-09 15:26 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA Dave Taht
2023-01-09 17:00 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-09 17:04 ` [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Jeremy Austin
2023-01-09 18:33 ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 18:54 ` [Bloat] [EXTERNAL] " Livingood, Jason
2023-01-09 19:19 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:56 ` [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-01-09 21:00 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 10:02 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 15:08 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [EXTERNAL] " Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 15:50 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:06 ` Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:19 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:12 ` dan
2023-03-13 16:36 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 17:26 ` dan
2023-03-13 17:37 ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 18:34 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:14 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:42 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 18:51 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 19:32 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 20:00 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:28 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 4:27 ` [Bloat] On FiWi rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 11:10 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Mike Puchol
2023-03-14 16:54 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] " Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:06 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:11 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-14 17:35 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:54 ` [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-14 18:14 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 19:18 ` dan
2023-03-14 19:30 ` Dave Taht
2023-03-14 20:06 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 19:30 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 23:30 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 0:11 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-15 5:20 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 16:17 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Aaron Wood
2023-03-15 17:05 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 17:44 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 19:22 ` David Lang
2023-03-15 17:32 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:42 ` dan
2023-03-15 19:33 ` David Lang
2023-03-15 19:39 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-15 21:52 ` David Lang
2023-03-15 22:04 ` Dave Taht
2023-03-15 22:08 ` dan
2023-03-15 17:43 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-15 17:49 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:53 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-15 17:59 ` dan
2023-03-15 19:39 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 16:38 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] " Dave Taht
2023-03-17 18:21 ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-17 19:01 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-17 19:19 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 20:37 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-17 20:57 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 22:50 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-18 18:18 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-18 19:57 ` [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-18 20:40 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-19 10:26 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Michael Richardson
2023-03-19 21:00 ` [Bloat] On metrics rjmcmahon
2023-03-20 0:26 ` dan
2023-03-20 3:03 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " David Lang
2023-03-20 20:46 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-20 21:28 ` dan
2023-03-20 21:38 ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-20 22:02 ` [Bloat] On FiWi power envelope rjmcmahon
2023-03-20 23:47 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-21 0:10 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
2023-03-21 5:21 ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-21 11:26 ` [Bloat] Annoyed at 5/1 Mbps Rich Brown
2023-03-21 12:31 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-21 12:53 ` Rich Brown
2023-03-21 15:22 ` Jan Ceuleers
2023-03-21 18:33 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-21 17:22 ` dan
2023-03-21 19:04 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-23 18:23 ` dan
2023-03-21 12:29 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
2023-03-21 12:30 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-21 17:42 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 18:08 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 18:51 ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-21 19:58 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 20:06 ` David Lang
2023-03-25 19:39 ` [Bloat] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:09 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 20:47 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:15 ` [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-25 20:43 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 21:08 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 22:04 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:50 ` dan
2023-03-25 23:21 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:35 ` David Lang
2023-03-26 0:04 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26 0:07 ` Nathan Owens
2023-03-26 0:50 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26 8:45 ` Livingood, Jason
2023-03-26 18:54 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 0:28 ` David Lang
2023-03-26 0:57 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:57 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 23:33 ` David Lang
2023-03-25 23:38 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:20 ` David Lang
2023-03-26 18:29 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 10:34 ` [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-26 18:12 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 20:57 ` David Lang
2023-03-26 21:11 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-26 21:26 ` David Lang
2023-03-28 17:06 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Larry Press
2023-03-28 17:47 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 18:11 ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-28 18:46 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 20:37 ` David Lang
2023-03-28 21:31 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 22:18 ` dan
2023-03-28 22:42 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-29 8:28 ` Sebastian Moeller
[not found] ` <a2857ec4-a6ea-e9eb-cf99-17ef7ea08ef2@indexexchange.com>
[not found] ` <716ECAAD-E2EE-4647-9E73-D60BF8BF9C1E@searls.com>
2023-03-29 13:40 ` [Bloat] Enabling a production model Dave Taht
2023-03-29 14:54 ` [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-29 16:53 ` Jeremy Austin [this message]
2023-03-29 18:33 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 17:13 ` [Bloat] " David Lang
2023-03-29 17:34 ` dan
2023-03-29 20:03 ` David Lang
2023-03-29 17:46 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] " Rich Brown
2023-03-29 19:02 ` tom
2023-03-29 19:08 ` Dave Taht
2023-03-29 19:31 ` tom
2023-03-29 19:11 ` Dave Collier-Brown
2023-03-29 13:46 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-29 14:57 ` [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-29 19:23 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 19:02 ` [Bloat] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-29 19:37 ` dan
2023-03-25 20:27 ` [Bloat] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 23:15 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] On FiWi David Lang
2023-03-13 19:33 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA dan
2023-03-13 19:52 ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 21:00 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:27 ` dan
2023-03-14 9:11 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:45 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:02 ` [Bloat] When do you drop? Always! Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:04 ` [Bloat] UnderBloat on fiber and wisps Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:09 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:22 ` [Bloat] Offtopic: passive ping. was: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA Dave Collier-Brown
2023-03-13 18:50 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 19:48 ` Dave Collier-Brown
2023-01-09 20:49 ` [Bloat] [EXTERNAL] Re: [Starlink] " Dave Taht
2023-01-09 19:13 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:47 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-09 20:20 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] " Dave Taht
2023-01-09 20:46 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 20:59 ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 21:06 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 21:18 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 21:02 ` [Bloat] [Starlink] [Rpm] " Dick Roy
2023-01-10 17:36 ` [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] " David P. Reed
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