From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-x112c.google.com (mail-yw1-x112c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05A3D3CB55 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2023 12:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yw1-x112c.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-544787916d9so303734667b3.13 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2023 09:54:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aterlo.com; s=google; t=1680108847; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=XUSS0xckHeAPeI2CwjZ0XJEFWQbQLBN0twQfyU2PdxA=; b=HB0jg28FedZWuJKiGYQYdsvv5V0G45pyGZ0dfs7x9I1r5XLIAR/uP4tR6wo+uJcjcN JlcDtoJc5rnK2CfEKjo2AOEcIU946yo7H/SZYpaKd/tq2kzqQgYPFhaSCsRuoJW1SXKp TzduiEGkmRJ5tWpecW9PFQUhP5p+6bEtOm15w= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680108847; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=XUSS0xckHeAPeI2CwjZ0XJEFWQbQLBN0twQfyU2PdxA=; b=wUJcLOssyg6gyX27jaz+kgOZ+Sn1/f6Ct3giXEfFDd2Qw4GTzfCGPffl51SjPAvtfZ QLM4eBUioNWNVcsmnyGrKn+3Dg76uh37pFw3unWP585ygrYspdvOVE7+vh8z8h5Tyck9 HMu8k0wsbEJzbqYw8eL6BznqeNPlDgHsN4318xCYgtRtT2EPGZ4+zNF0JpNHdJYG2lvd gq+bY57kUKwxmglAGRNdaE26hj2eVsFQYlJt5eF5uJcrmpkP+JzynN+0P7UstlYXkWri s35vYzKFu0drg3YAi3ibSJaPpYsS9DBu9nFZiziKAb7Xf2Aoj3iu/3qDUfuO3FET+hQE eI5A== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9da8SwwEKB3uM3VQ3tB6pUq2f/xfYTHyg3gtGlbV02KI+Har5L6 s7K9cfVgNYjk394oh4moeMblZ4UcUNPmAUBk1yLVww== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350Zo/L9ncABuzPMaDYJJz5/3qSJIx2CdxhO6KcB4eMDd7fBAG3MUhePUdKJp6FOvv0bnOro8GOwNz9wnOkMXbY8= X-Received: by 2002:a81:d44d:0:b0:545:f7cb:f3ad with SMTP id g13-20020a81d44d000000b00545f7cbf3admr5306164ywl.10.1680108847280; Wed, 29 Mar 2023 09:54:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1d6c10c9a692bb3f2869fb1b40fa449a@rjmcmahon.com> <2885829.1679221616@dyas> <20230321001019.GA4531@sunf68.rd.bbc.co.uk> <4295238B-FA57-49B6-B57B-78FFB2603B90@gmx.de> <8301258b8fffa18bd14279bff043dd03@rjmcmahon.com> <43bcbc338aecb44a1bef49489ab6f9c8@rjmcmahon.com> <60e70b637df76234639780ab08f25d82@rjmcmahon.com> <9edd011a1a6615470b34e0837896a15f@rjmcmahon.com> <6EB62755-EF23-44BA-B2FF-66FAC708653D@gmx.de> <6qnq34os-3qss-s4q7-s286-2s49q890q920@ynat.uz> <27aea5070eeb1b1535f3e75489295feb@rjmcmahon.com> <08526EAC-7EA3-4BFA-A231-B2935E09C8AC@gmx.de> <716ECAAD-E2EE-4647-9E73-D60BF8BF9C1E@searls.com> In-Reply-To: From: Jeremy Austin Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2023 08:53:56 -0800 Message-ID: To: dan Cc: Dave Collier-Brown , Dave Taht , Dave Taht via Starlink , Doc Searls , bloat , libreqos Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000006c8ba05f80cd3bd" Subject: Re: [Bloat] [LibreQoS] Enabling a production model X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2023 16:54:08 -0000 --00000000000006c8ba05f80cd3bd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 6:54 AM dan via LibreQoS < libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > The obvious solution is to foster competition. Anywhere you overlay cabl= e >> companies with fiber BOTH companies remain and compete against each othe= r >> and the cable company increases upload speeds. If fiber was so naturall= y >> superior, the cable companies would be erased. I have MSP customers in >> multiple markets with competing techs and it's VERY nice to be able to g= et >> fiber and cable or terragraph and cable to a business for resilience. I >> cannot do that on single product dominated markets. The 'exchange' mode= l >> above doesn't do it because of that single point of failure of the >> municipal fiber. > > To say categorically that competition is the only solution disenfranchises the sparse edge where it doesn=E2=80=99t pay to have a *single* terrestrial incumbent, let alone two. Yes, we will have StarLink, and perhaps eventually some competition to it (Bezos), but there is no escaping the reality that competition in the last mile destroys value. Between StarLink densities and this utopia where both fiber and cable can afford to build (and maintain!) enough customers lie a giant wasteland =E2= =80=94 not enough customers for lines, too many for LEO. Fixed Wireless Access helps, but even in that context competition destroys value. You can have subsidy (=E2=80=9CBroadband for All=E2=80=9D OR consumer choic= e, not both. At this point I would hold up an Omnibus-podcast-like sign =E2=80=9CCompati= ble With Marxism=E2=80=9D, or =E2=80=9CNot Compatible With Marxism=E2=80=9D, but I= =E2=80=99m not sure which. $.02 Jeremy --=20 [image: Company logo] *Jeremy Austin* Sr. Product Manager *Preseem | Aterlo Networks* Book a call: https://app.hubspot.com/meetings/jeremy548 1-833-773-7336 ext 718 *|* 1-907-803-5422 jeremy@aterlo.com www.preseem.com [image: facebook icon] [image: twitter icon] [image: linkedin icon] [image= : youtube icon] [image: Ask us about our new features today!] --00000000000006c8ba05f80cd3bd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 6:54 AM dan via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net<= /a>> wrote:






= --
3D"Company
Jere= my Austin
Sr. Product= Manager
Preseem | Aterlo Networks=
Book a call:=C2=A0https://app.hubspot.c= om/meetings/jeremy548
=C2=A0=C2=A03D"twitter=C2=A03D"linkedin=C2=A03D"youtube=C2=A0
3D"Ask
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