From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd32.google.com (mail-io1-xd32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DAFD3B2A4 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 21:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd32.google.com with SMTP id z2so8625493iol.11 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 18:04:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=netflix.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=vNJ2PbzmoMXbVnzAmhGPq3BeuCDPuBi/369HoZCVuHA=; b=PHS4qY6seHKGcEg7FxhuXsK4bnIMIa0b1o/9+J1DIDaK/H2J/dpbJgFKuUjJZ0+APk FTJKzbOGKjuDkEcj7tB3ZBgJueM3XzGKuuAlL5nrt7wcVtsi8iOEOJv5/Mvh9ViYRoJj epWBkGitC7b/xNOVh6M8U5ax50zoAL0JM1F+A= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=vNJ2PbzmoMXbVnzAmhGPq3BeuCDPuBi/369HoZCVuHA=; b=sLY3CNoG4seqpCKxk9KjNLgyQpeBF2WocfixHUidk6Rj7noa3d/XXqYeEuH2F26Pg/ RAqC1sYJXLCqtGtZMTosx8YmzSQygYzH3+Coj+K9TtIqQT5tslvbAJSiCcxW30ZDn/gT 8GrDI6vT35eT62IxsCYJ1CkQrgtgsf415PyeBHVDfcjMbdxYgSXOWG8hiHEk4pK3eJll qQ803kY+5n8RkpE8gvZDXZPntOOlcJRwe/1G/ZPPaH1ldNPfyV8SQV9E6zPJE12Uykq2 Uk4ZHYrhwB0Ti+XDo/Qm7B1uMV0sozgVZvz9wVYAuGiAB8YsDL8kOWAt0S2ZGHTl1GRp oIww== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubBpv0dP+KJ/MFh3sYeBL2vV4HFpAY2sE+uEMGKdG4LHgN4Nb3w QpgqgWGNuBPCuhFGEUsnptrfXl78rh7I9OAMrLCKJA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypI1pcmP6NCEvutEyoYWGjVApRWejPMkq4xGF3m4Uo5ghQ7NiskaayGdKZRrYw3n/pwKcpGHHCNZvCaOpE3xvhw= X-Received: by 2002:a02:a40b:: with SMTP id c11mr5853624jal.62.1587690254753; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 18:04:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Sergey Fedorov Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 18:03:39 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Bloat] this explains speedtest stuff To: Dave Taht Cc: Jonathan Foulkes , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a60d3505a3fef147" X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 01:04:15 -0000 --000000000000a60d3505a3fef147 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > One thing I've been seeing is way too many articles basically talking > about traffic increases (or not), and how many are videoconferencing from > home... but no metrics of import to videoconferencing folk. I've been > engaged in a conversation about increasing a certain videoconferencing > platform's default jitterbuffer to... wait for it... *1 sec* - based on h= ow > badly LTE was performing for some people > so if you control your own videoconferencing tools, collecting more > metrics there would be usef > One very interesting metric a netflix streamer could be collecting is > differences in tcp RTT (assuming you slowed traffic down in europe, > especially, to a lower quality?), hour by hour, day by day. All good points and I generally agree with your observation on lack of good resources/recommendations to improve latency-sensitive network interactions, especially as those are becoming critical for the users. I hope we'll be able to share some of the findings/observations/recommendations based on our experience (white paper, blog etc), but no hard promises at this point. SERGEY FEDOROV Director of Engineering sfedorov@netflix.com 121 Albright Way | Los Gatos, CA 95032 On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:27 PM Dave Taht wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Sergey Fedorov > wrote: > >> Hi folks, >> >> No need to put more pressure - I've seen Jonathan's suggestion and it >> makes a lot of sense to add the option to deep-link to an expanded versi= on >> with all detailed parameters shown. >> This will be added some time this quarter (Q2), but not within a few nex= t >> weeks. >> > > that's wonderful, thanks! > > One thing I've been seeing is way too many articles basically talking > about traffic increases (or not), and how many are videoconferencing from > home... but no metrics of import to videoconferencing folk. I've been > engaged in a conversation about increasing a certain videoconferencing > platform's default jitterbuffer to... wait for it... *1 sec* - based on h= ow > badly LTE was performing for some people > > so if you control your own videoconferencing tools, collecting more > metrics there would be usef > > One very interesting metric a netflix streamer could be collecting is > differences in tcp RTT (assuming you slowed traffic down in europe, > especially, to a lower quality?), hour by hour, day by day. > > another one is packet loss... retransmits... > > > >> SERGEY FEDOROV >> >> Director of Engineering >> >> sfedorov@netflix.com >> >> 121 Albright Way | Los Gatos, CA 95032 >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:00 PM Jonathan Foulkes >> wrote: >> >>> Confirmed, and I go there all time as well, you=E2=80=99d think it woul= d be the >>> first thing Google would show us. >>> >>> At least Fast.com is on the first page, but they don=E2=80=99t pro-acti= vely show >>> latency tests, especially on the upload. >>> >>> BTW- I=E2=80=99ve suggested they support a URL request format where we = can >>> pre-set options that engage and show results for the bloat tests. This = way >>> we can share that pre-formated link and the users who click on it >>> immediately see a bloat metric. >>> Maybe if a few more suggest this as well, it will climb in priority. >>> >>> - Jonathan >>> >>> > On Apr 23, 2020, at 3:38 PM, Dave Taht wrote: >>> > >>> > dslreports.com is only on the third page of the search results. >>> > >>> > https://www.google.com/search?q=3Dinternet+speed+test >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Bloat mailing list >>> > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bloat mailing list >>> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >>> >> > > -- > Make Music, Not War > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > CTO, TekLibre, LLC > http://www.teklibre.com > Tel: 1-831-435-0729 > --000000000000a60d3505a3fef147 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One thin= g I've been seeing is way too many articles basically talking about tra= ffic increases (or not), and how many are videoconferencing from home... bu= t no metrics of import to videoconferencing folk. I've been engaged in = a conversation about increasing a certain videoconferencing platform's = default jitterbuffer to... wait for it... *1 sec* - based on how badly LTE = was performing for some people
so if you control your own videoconferenc= ing tools, collecting more metrics there would be usef
One very interest= ing metric a netflix streamer could be collecting is differences in tcp RTT= (assuming you slowed traffic down in europe, especially, to a lower qualit= y?), hour by hour, day by day.
All good points and I gener= ally agree with your observation on lack of good resources/recommendations = to improve latency-sensitive network interactions, especially as those are = becoming critical for the users.
I hope we'll be able to shar= e some of the findings/observations/recommendations=C2=A0based on our exper= ience (white paper, blog etc), but no hard promises at this point.

SERGEY FEDOROV

Director of Engineering

sfedorov@netflix.com

121 Albright Way | Los Gatos, CA 95032




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:27 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
<= br>

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Sergey Fedorov <sfedorov@netflix.com> wrote:
<= div>Hi folks,

No need to put more pressure - I've s= een Jonathan's suggestion and it makes a lot of sense to add the option= to deep-link to an expanded version with all detailed parameters shown.This will be added some time this quarter (Q2), but not within a few next= weeks.

that's wonderful, t= hanks!

One thing I've been seeing is way too m= any articles basically talking about traffic increases (or not), and how ma= ny are videoconferencing from home... but no metrics of import to videoconf= erencing folk. I've been engaged in a conversation about increasing a c= ertain videoconferencing platform's default jitterbuffer to... wait for= it... *1 sec* - based on how badly LTE was performing for some people
<= /div>

so if you control your own videoconferencing tools= , collecting more metrics there would be usef

= One very interesting metric a netflix streamer could be collecting is diff= erences in tcp RTT (assuming you slowed traffic down in europe, especially,= to a lower quality?), hour by hour, day by day.

<= div>another one is packet loss... retransmits...



SERGEY FE= DOROV

Director of Engineering

= sfedorov@netflix.com

121 Albright Way | Los = Gatos, CA 95032



On Thu, A= pr 23, 2020 at 1:00 PM Jonathan Foulkes <jf@jonathanfoulkes.com> wrote:
Confirmed, and I go ther= e all time as well, you=E2=80=99d think it would be the first thing Google = would show us.

At least Fast.com is on the first page, but they don=E2=80=99t pro-actively= show latency tests, especially on the upload.

BTW- I=E2=80=99ve suggested they support a URL request format where we can = pre-set options that engage and show results for the bloat tests. This way = we can share that pre-formated link and the users who click on it immediate= ly see a bloat metric.
Maybe if a few more suggest this as well, it will climb in priority.

- Jonathan

> On Apr 23, 2020, at 3:38 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> dslreports.com is only on the third page of the search results.
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=3Dinterne= t+speed+test
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat= @lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@list= s.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat


--
Make Music= , Not War

Dave T=C3=A4ht
CTO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-8= 31-435-0729
--000000000000a60d3505a3fef147--