From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi1-x22d.google.com (mail-oi1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09FDB3B29E for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 11:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oi1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id f4so2253605oib.4 for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:13:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=zVHLJFaqg0vKuFmgRWC+k6XPNQvyZ8/9w5jlmRLhBcg=; b=QYOnllJETM9a5nGRaw6mTjYQMnV5BDQkjexaszw/UWo08kLG0asmFZ2qti8YeDQGM/ 4fjQI2I1sqw2Esi0iDdz8yJc8aOumntS1tq/xChMEUMU37X7S950QnOIDisb/U0hKzO7 I6h5ynRg+GamywMEnnws1U5vUUwoHQyOIfdCCgQPBdS59wTGt2O+RlkYVus/eRmGToOO hvg3Pv5kKMhE/moj8yKJUUWclIDqZcwsJHkAJwOBFxzePrzhLUrXjMRcU7ues9N626VH GYUWamgAEqY6be371G14sqairsWjoRegvlIfCj7QwEKOtw1wN5OVUZV7BZR5Svqglt8b XreA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zVHLJFaqg0vKuFmgRWC+k6XPNQvyZ8/9w5jlmRLhBcg=; b=WH6JkSbMh/1tfxhhg5jBCoEHv++/v2DAGiIgzfVScroj2gLee9VZRLd0fLkvkXeKhF iioaoKAK0HDGiDCZXrxEbaTH/PNiZMme+c4KTVhcDKZnQHHiDOoGyUgwzhyBEfSfraFI 9yXtU3EeVqlGD9G8FN1Yhy4IouC4b92VYO5p6+oI21K26w96rn/qlDN3izfmN4OroGoD kGxzqDHys+x8yVVrvUiBFS3NSbWk5naZl0+oTcUWJmB1FmA2eaVd9x08QaX6WGjHCAhm V/evevp2rSeF+D4NcT1eRuh/ZjGCVBU1LWn6MoKwFbI9io4shD7teWADsBBiB6NXRDUC EYhg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXcO/E+K1tNgaMQ6vZmLy+5GWWcUOH+iLtD2fjKjYlX896DkemJ KUj9+bxsqsVsRp9oX6vTXCRekNangfQzSn8kpba5Ag== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwuMPassP3RTbRxA+h4ytGIIN5nwYLjwoahjxLsxV5Em5cZFdLkesfjTF8PCC+UtmEBBm/hT3QECEDlxaaRJ3k= X-Received: by 2002:aca:34d6:: with SMTP id b205mr62261oia.14.1557760414943; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:13:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Neal Cardwell Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 11:13:18 -0400 Message-ID: To: Sebastian Moeller Cc: bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002e03270588c65c73" Subject: Re: [Bloat] DOCSIS cable modems that support PIE? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 15:13:36 -0000 --0000000000002e03270588c65c73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks for the details! Given that DOCSIS 3.1 (released initially in 2013) has many revisions - https://specification-search.cablelabs.com/CM-SP-MULPIv3.1?v=03 - and low-latency DOCSIS and L4S was added in 2019 (CM-SP-MULPIv3.1-I17-190121), I had been under the impression that the PIE AQM for upstream traffic was also added in some later revision. But I do see now that the PIE AQM for upstream traffic was in Annex M of the initial 3.1 spec (CM-SP-MULPIv3.1-I01-131029). Does anyone happen to know if (and if so, how widely) the major cable ISPs world-wide enable the upstream PIE AQM functionality? neal *From: *Sebastian Moeller *Date: *Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:16 AM *To: *bloat, Neal Cardwell Hi Neal, > > As far as I can tell the PIE aqm is mandatory in all DOCSIS 3.1 CPEs, do > Al you need is a modem certified for 3.1 and probably also an DOCSIS ISP > supplying 3.1 services (I assume the AQM will only be engaged in a docsis > 3.1 environment), as in DOCSIS the ISP basically has control over the CPE, > so you would need their cooperation. Not every DOCSIS ISP will provision > any customer modem, but I assume you have enough leverage to make this > happen. > > Anyway according to the spec sheets: > AVM Fritzbox 6591 > Netgear CM1000-1AZNAS > Arris SB8200 > Motorola MB8600 > should give you what you want. > > Best Reards > Sebastian > > P.S.: I would love to hear your results, as information about the effects > of docsis pie in the wild is quite limited... > > > On May 12, 2019 11:24:50 PM GMT+02:00, Neal Cardwell > wrote: >> >> Anyone have a pointer to a cable modem model that is available for >> purchase and implements the DOCSIS 3.1 PIE mechanism? (So far, my searches >> for this have only found other people asking this question, rather than the >> answer. Apologies if I missed something that should be easy to find.) >> >> I'm curious to have one for testing with BBR v2. I'm aware of the Linux >> PIE implementation, but it would be nice to have the actual cable modem >> version to play with as well. >> >> Thanks! >> neal >> >> --0000000000002e03270588c65c73 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the details!

Given that DOCS= IS 3.1 (released initially in 2013) has many revisions -=C2=A0https://sp= ecification-search.cablelabs.com/CM-SP-MULPIv3.1?v=3D03=C2=A0-=C2=A0=C2= =A0and low-latency DOCSIS and L4S was added in 2019 (CM-SP-MULPIv3.1-I17-19= 0121), I had been under the impression that the PIE AQM for upstream traffi= c was also added in some later revision. But I do see now that the PIE AQM = for upstream traffic was in Annex M of the initial 3.1 spec (CM-SP-MULPIv3.= 1-I01-131029).

Does anyone happen to know if (and = if so, how widely) the major cable ISPs world-wide enable the upstream PIE = AQM functionality?

neal

=
From: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
Date: M= on, May 13, 2019 at 5:16 AM
To: bloat, Neal Cardwell
Hi Neal,

As far as I can tell the P= IE aqm is mandatory in all DOCSIS 3.1 CPEs, do Al you need is a modem certi= fied for 3.1 and probably also an DOCSIS ISP supplying 3.1 services (I assu= me the AQM will only be engaged in a docsis 3.1 environment), as in DOCSIS = the ISP basically has control over the CPE, so you would need their coopera= tion. Not every DOCSIS ISP will provision any customer modem, but I assume = you have enough leverage to make this happen.

Anyw= ay according to the spec sheets:
AVM Fritzbox 6591
Netg= ear=C2=A0CM1000-1AZNAS
Arris SB8200
Motorola=C2=A0MB860= 0
should give you what you want.

Best Re= ards
Sebastian

P.S= .: I would love to hear your results, as information about the effects of d= ocsis pie in the wild is quite limited...


On May 12, 2019 11:24:50 PM GMT+02:00, Neal Cardwell= <ncardwell@go= ogle.com> wrote:
Anyone have a pointer to a cable modem model that is avail= able for purchase and implements the DOCSIS 3.1 PIE mechanism?=C2=A0 (So fa= r, my searches for this have only found other people asking this question, = rather than the answer. Apologies if I missed something that should be easy= to find.)

I'm curious to have one for testing with = BBR v2. I'm aware of the Linux PIE implementation, but it would be nice= to have the actual cable modem version to play with as well.
Thanks!
neal

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