* [Bloat] DOCSIS cable modems that support PIE? @ 2019-05-12 21:24 Neal Cardwell 2019-05-13 9:16 ` Sebastian Moeller 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Neal Cardwell @ 2019-05-12 21:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bloat [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 478 bytes --] Anyone have a pointer to a cable modem model that is available for purchase and implements the DOCSIS 3.1 PIE mechanism? (So far, my searches for this have only found other people asking this question, rather than the answer. Apologies if I missed something that should be easy to find.) I'm curious to have one for testing with BBR v2. I'm aware of the Linux PIE implementation, but it would be nice to have the actual cable modem version to play with as well. Thanks! neal [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 582 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bloat] DOCSIS cable modems that support PIE? 2019-05-12 21:24 [Bloat] DOCSIS cable modems that support PIE? Neal Cardwell @ 2019-05-13 9:16 ` Sebastian Moeller 2019-05-13 15:13 ` Neal Cardwell 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Sebastian Moeller @ 2019-05-13 9:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bloat, Neal Cardwell [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1329 bytes --] Hi Neal, As far as I can tell the PIE aqm is mandatory in all DOCSIS 3.1 CPEs, do Al you need is a modem certified for 3.1 and probably also an DOCSIS ISP supplying 3.1 services (I assume the AQM will only be engaged in a docsis 3.1 environment), as in DOCSIS the ISP basically has control over the CPE, so you would need their cooperation. Not every DOCSIS ISP will provision any customer modem, but I assume you have enough leverage to make this happen. Anyway according to the spec sheets: AVM Fritzbox 6591 Netgear CM1000-1AZNAS Arris SB8200 Motorola MB8600 should give you what you want. Best Reards Sebastian P.S.: I would love to hear your results, as information about the effects of docsis pie in the wild is quite limited... On May 12, 2019 11:24:50 PM GMT+02:00, Neal Cardwell <ncardwell@google.com> wrote: Anyone have a pointer to a cable modem model that is available for purchase and implements the DOCSIS 3.1 PIE mechanism? (So far, my searches for this have only found other people asking this question, rather than the answer. Apologies if I missed something that should be easy to find.) I'm curious to have one for testing with BBR v2. I'm aware of the Linux PIE implementation, but it would be nice to have the actual cable modem version to play with as well. Thanks! neal [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2374 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bloat] DOCSIS cable modems that support PIE? 2019-05-13 9:16 ` Sebastian Moeller @ 2019-05-13 15:13 ` Neal Cardwell 2019-05-13 15:27 ` Sebastian Moeller 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Neal Cardwell @ 2019-05-13 15:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Sebastian Moeller; +Cc: bloat [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2109 bytes --] Thanks for the details! Given that DOCSIS 3.1 (released initially in 2013) has many revisions - https://specification-search.cablelabs.com/CM-SP-MULPIv3.1?v=03 - and low-latency DOCSIS and L4S was added in 2019 (CM-SP-MULPIv3.1-I17-190121), I had been under the impression that the PIE AQM for upstream traffic was also added in some later revision. But I do see now that the PIE AQM for upstream traffic was in Annex M of the initial 3.1 spec (CM-SP-MULPIv3.1-I01-131029). Does anyone happen to know if (and if so, how widely) the major cable ISPs world-wide enable the upstream PIE AQM functionality? neal *From: *Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> *Date: *Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:16 AM *To: *bloat, Neal Cardwell Hi Neal, > > As far as I can tell the PIE aqm is mandatory in all DOCSIS 3.1 CPEs, do > Al you need is a modem certified for 3.1 and probably also an DOCSIS ISP > supplying 3.1 services (I assume the AQM will only be engaged in a docsis > 3.1 environment), as in DOCSIS the ISP basically has control over the CPE, > so you would need their cooperation. Not every DOCSIS ISP will provision > any customer modem, but I assume you have enough leverage to make this > happen. > > Anyway according to the spec sheets: > AVM Fritzbox 6591 > Netgear CM1000-1AZNAS > Arris SB8200 > Motorola MB8600 > should give you what you want. > > Best Reards > Sebastian > > P.S.: I would love to hear your results, as information about the effects > of docsis pie in the wild is quite limited... > > > On May 12, 2019 11:24:50 PM GMT+02:00, Neal Cardwell <ncardwell@google.com> > wrote: >> >> Anyone have a pointer to a cable modem model that is available for >> purchase and implements the DOCSIS 3.1 PIE mechanism? (So far, my searches >> for this have only found other people asking this question, rather than the >> answer. Apologies if I missed something that should be easy to find.) >> >> I'm curious to have one for testing with BBR v2. I'm aware of the Linux >> PIE implementation, but it would be nice to have the actual cable modem >> version to play with as well. >> >> Thanks! >> neal >> >> [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3197 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bloat] DOCSIS cable modems that support PIE? 2019-05-13 15:13 ` Neal Cardwell @ 2019-05-13 15:27 ` Sebastian Moeller 2019-05-13 15:48 ` Colin Dearborn 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Sebastian Moeller @ 2019-05-13 15:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Neal Cardwell; +Cc: bloat, Greg White Hi Neal, > On May 13, 2019, at 17:13, Neal Cardwell <ncardwell@google.com> wrote: > > Thanks for the details! > > Given that DOCSIS 3.1 (released initially in 2013) has many revisions - https://specification-search.cablelabs.com/CM-SP-MULPIv3.1?v=03 - and low-latency DOCSIS and L4S was added in 2019 (CM-SP-MULPIv3.1-I17-190121), I had been under the impression that the PIE AQM for upstream traffic was also added in some later revision. But I do see now that the PIE AQM for upstream traffic was in Annex M of the initial 3.1 spec (CM-SP-MULPIv3.1-I01-131029). Yes, that was actually pretty col to see this as a requirement from day 1. It is a bit of a downer how long the ISPs take/took to actually roll-out docsis 3.1. > > Does anyone happen to know if (and if so, how widely) the major cable ISPs world-wide enable the upstream PIE AQM functionality? I have no clue, but I believe Greg White (CC'd) might have more insight in this. Best Regards Sebastian > > neal > > > From: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> > Date: Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:16 AM > To: bloat, Neal Cardwell > > Hi Neal, > > As far as I can tell the PIE aqm is mandatory in all DOCSIS 3.1 CPEs, do Al you need is a modem certified for 3.1 and probably also an DOCSIS ISP supplying 3.1 services (I assume the AQM will only be engaged in a docsis 3.1 environment), as in DOCSIS the ISP basically has control over the CPE, so you would need their cooperation. Not every DOCSIS ISP will provision any customer modem, but I assume you have enough leverage to make this happen. > > Anyway according to the spec sheets: > AVM Fritzbox 6591 > Netgear CM1000-1AZNAS > Arris SB8200 > Motorola MB8600 > should give you what you want. > > Best Reards > Sebastian > > P.S.: I would love to hear your results, as information about the effects of docsis pie in the wild is quite limited... > > > On May 12, 2019 11:24:50 PM GMT+02:00, Neal Cardwell <ncardwell@google.com> wrote: > Anyone have a pointer to a cable modem model that is available for purchase and implements the DOCSIS 3.1 PIE mechanism? (So far, my searches for this have only found other people asking this question, rather than the answer. Apologies if I missed something that should be easy to find.) > > I'm curious to have one for testing with BBR v2. I'm aware of the Linux PIE implementation, but it would be nice to have the actual cable modem version to play with as well. > > Thanks! > neal > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bloat] DOCSIS cable modems that support PIE? 2019-05-13 15:27 ` Sebastian Moeller @ 2019-05-13 15:48 ` Colin Dearborn 2019-05-15 13:53 ` Neal Cardwell 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Colin Dearborn @ 2019-05-13 15:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Sebastian Moeller, Neal Cardwell; +Cc: bloat CM AQM was added as an optional feature in DOCSIS 3.0. I don't know of any 3.0 modems where this was actually implemented though. This feature requires no support from the CMTS/CCAP chassis, so as long as the modem supports it, it will work, regardless of the supported DOCSIS version of the CMTS. I have verified AQM working with the Arris CM8200A, the Technicolor TC4400, the Hitron CODA-46 and the Hitron CODA-4582. AQM is on by default on these modems, so unless the ISP is intentionally turning it off, it'll be there. -----Original Message----- From: Bloat <bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> On Behalf Of Sebastian Moeller Sent: Monday, May 13, 2019 9:28 AM To: Neal Cardwell <ncardwell@google.com> Cc: bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> Subject: Re: [Bloat] DOCSIS cable modems that support PIE? CAUTION: This email is from an external source. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Hi Neal, > On May 13, 2019, at 17:13, Neal Cardwell <ncardwell@google.com> wrote: > > Thanks for the details! > > Given that DOCSIS 3.1 (released initially in 2013) has many revisions - https://specification-search.cablelabs.com/CM-SP-MULPIv3.1?v=03 - and low-latency DOCSIS and L4S was added in 2019 (CM-SP-MULPIv3.1-I17-190121), I had been under the impression that the PIE AQM for upstream traffic was also added in some later revision. But I do see now that the PIE AQM for upstream traffic was in Annex M of the initial 3.1 spec (CM-SP-MULPIv3.1-I01-131029). Yes, that was actually pretty col to see this as a requirement from day 1. It is a bit of a downer how long the ISPs take/took to actually roll-out docsis 3.1. > > Does anyone happen to know if (and if so, how widely) the major cable ISPs world-wide enable the upstream PIE AQM functionality? I have no clue, but I believe Greg White (CC'd) might have more insight in this. Best Regards Sebastian > > neal > > > From: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> > Date: Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:16 AM > To: bloat, Neal Cardwell > > Hi Neal, > > As far as I can tell the PIE aqm is mandatory in all DOCSIS 3.1 CPEs, do Al you need is a modem certified for 3.1 and probably also an DOCSIS ISP supplying 3.1 services (I assume the AQM will only be engaged in a docsis 3.1 environment), as in DOCSIS the ISP basically has control over the CPE, so you would need their cooperation. Not every DOCSIS ISP will provision any customer modem, but I assume you have enough leverage to make this happen. > > Anyway according to the spec sheets: > AVM Fritzbox 6591 > Netgear CM1000-1AZNAS > Arris SB8200 > Motorola MB8600 > should give you what you want. > > Best Reards > Sebastian > > P.S.: I would love to hear your results, as information about the effects of docsis pie in the wild is quite limited... > > > On May 12, 2019 11:24:50 PM GMT+02:00, Neal Cardwell <ncardwell@google.com> wrote: > Anyone have a pointer to a cable modem model that is available for purchase and implements the DOCSIS 3.1 PIE mechanism? (So far, my searches for this have only found other people asking this question, rather than the answer. Apologies if I missed something that should be easy to find.) > > I'm curious to have one for testing with BBR v2. I'm aware of the Linux PIE implementation, but it would be nice to have the actual cable modem version to play with as well. > > Thanks! > neal > _______________________________________________ Bloat mailing list Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bloat] DOCSIS cable modems that support PIE? 2019-05-13 15:48 ` Colin Dearborn @ 2019-05-15 13:53 ` Neal Cardwell 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Neal Cardwell @ 2019-05-15 13:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Colin Dearborn; +Cc: Sebastian Moeller, bloat [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 725 bytes --] *From: *Colin Dearborn <Colin.Dearborn@sjrb.ca> *Date: *Mon, May 13, 2019 at 11:49 AM *To: *Sebastian Moeller, Neal Cardwell *Cc: *bloat CM AQM was added as an optional feature in DOCSIS 3.0. I don't know of any > 3.0 modems where this was actually implemented though. > This feature requires no support from the CMTS/CCAP chassis, so as long as > the modem supports it, it will work, regardless of the supported DOCSIS > version of the CMTS. > > I have verified AQM working with the Arris CM8200A, the Technicolor > TC4400, the Hitron CODA-46 and the Hitron CODA-4582. AQM is on by default > on these modems, so unless the ISP is intentionally turning it off, it'll > be there. > Great! Thank you for those details. neal [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1192 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2019-05-15 13:53 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2019-05-12 21:24 [Bloat] DOCSIS cable modems that support PIE? Neal Cardwell 2019-05-13 9:16 ` Sebastian Moeller 2019-05-13 15:13 ` Neal Cardwell 2019-05-13 15:27 ` Sebastian Moeller 2019-05-13 15:48 ` Colin Dearborn 2019-05-15 13:53 ` Neal Cardwell
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