From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pf1-x434.google.com (mail-pf1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9577A3B2A4 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 09:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x434.google.com with SMTP id h11so5327068pfn.0 for ; Thu, 06 May 2021 06:24:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Rg2VitlsYU3Z7sBQU4BYyOacv7jPx6cTYZ6MO7fOA4A=; b=pB2J2efv4O+GICUMTf/tZamQeZoeh2t40eY1875fDNZ9+jPlzRFFIU27NAnCIpxvyS o/iHSka7Y+W9eKnkQmouZradcPkFE8QCvgun/25uTE3Wvq/P+hDNQ3eXI13xnbNRCxlb wyWXkucfi9tClneXnsmKNgznHZVb0AlABwaaDMdjkKVjOb/+8RM547BEnZvTvN6htw6D X78NzAvP+QP1ZdXWvTkonozg1bi8b6Ukf+vmahqCZpFXHauPqUBzv+CrBAwrri/nMCK6 MIzxGINFcfa/WucQ5yZzuLjMWUK1ZZ5FNiJSV/E7tE19B8GDclSmfpt4lvaTL4rd3i6g YA2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Rg2VitlsYU3Z7sBQU4BYyOacv7jPx6cTYZ6MO7fOA4A=; b=nmSD19lC1cALPxztV5wKP7t0TrOS3tsm/cco5/4ScykYStBvENQ8OV6Hkv8Wd94KEK JHDDPn/Frs+/nwZcsmjvHhZwcejphlC4KCkIAhUjBfgiqZQ1wkd3HOj8mFhyQwoHG9Pn riecDrOW1FwccI1faqKWT16E2UD6UnGX2gZCehkTVspMq/71rKCEpkQ+id6IpLRXVrlZ S8XtsFQ7z+5bwXNI+t1LT7FTPwGVVqc0tHwNkzeaIFGUE3gkXYxgzAX3nw1sese/UXC+ CRnfMjLk9qypbi6iqSlIym916PwHLGTy9Jpi7K4IMfzeu5tOeOHjj4oJgSJ/wtCJzdKP UHCQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531lrnUT4BH1+UyTDos547bwZikbLhXJxBCTO0N1aEUv+nwPfWlC IUdrYfRHhwLxCJvPPh1SekD+rp29+0tvBmlkRsg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJztEkGsQsLLavvStXUpltLWHhZMUCYPIoFJ/hh1d9CppFQjik+Dp+cgj+uyJmtlbBU30petqWC6LugsWFZwxwI= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:914e:0:b029:28c:48d6:b27c with SMTP id 14-20020aa7914e0000b029028c48d6b27cmr4544464pfi.79.1620307448525; Thu, 06 May 2021 06:24:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jason Iannone Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 09:23:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Livingood, Jason" Cc: bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e5756405c1a93959" Subject: Re: [Bloat] Terminology for Laypeople X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 13:24:09 -0000 --000000000000e5756405c1a93959 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's not a short discussion but I start with a comparison of circuit and packet switching, usually with an accompanying drawing. There's a physicist joke in here about assuming a frictionless environment but for the intent of this explanation, a circuit switched path is bufferless because circuit switched networks are point to point and bits are transmitted at the same rate that they are received. Packet switching introduces a mechanism for nodes supporting multiple ingress, single egress transmission. In order to support transient bursts, network nodes hold onto bits for a time while the egress interface processes the node's ingress traffic. That hold time equates to additional latency. Every node in a path may subject a flow's traffic to buffering, increasing latency in transit based on its individual load. Jason On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 8:02 PM Livingood, Jason via Bloat < bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Like many of you I have been immersed in buffer bloat discussions for man= y > years, almost entirely within the technical community. Now that I am > starting to explain latency & latency under load to internal non-technica= l > folks, I have noticed some people don=E2=80=99t really understand =E2=80= =9Ctraditional=E2=80=9D > latency vs. latency under load (LUL). > > > > As a result, I am planning to experiment in some upcoming briefings and > call traditional latency =E2=80=9Cidle latency=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 a measu= re of latency conducted on > an otherwise idle connection. And then try calling LUL either =E2=80=9Cac= tive > latency=E2=80=9D or perhaps =E2=80=9Cworking latency=E2=80=9D (suggested = by an external colleague =E2=80=93 > can=E2=80=99t take credit for that one) =E2=80=93 to try to communicate i= t is latency when > the connection is experiencing normal usage. > > > > Have any of you here faced similar challenges explaining this to > non-technical audiences? Have you had any success with alternative terms? > What do you think of these? > > > > Thanks for any input, > > Jason > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > --000000000000e5756405c1a93959 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's not a short discussion but I start with a co= mparison of circuit and packet switching, usually with an accompanying draw= ing. There's a physicist joke in here about assuming a frictionless env= ironment but for the intent of this explanation, a circuit switched path is= bufferless because circuit switched networks are point to point and bits a= re transmitted at the same rate that they are received. Packet switching in= troduces a mechanism for nodes supporting multiple ingress, single egress t= ransmission. In order to support transient bursts, network nodes hold onto = bits for a time while the egress interface processes the node's ingress= traffic. That hold time equates to additional latency. Every node in a pat= h may subject a flow's traffic to buffering, increasing latency in tran= sit based on its individual load.

Jason
<= /div>
O= n Tue, May 4, 2021 at 8:02 PM Livingood, Jason via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:=

Like many of you I ha= ve been immersed in buffer bloat discussions for many years, almost entirel= y within the technical community. Now that I am starting to explain latency= & latency under load to internal non-technical folks, I have noticed some people don=E2=80=99t really under= stand =E2=80=9Ctraditional=E2=80=9D latency vs. latency under load (LUL).

=C2=A0<= /span>

As a result, I am pla= nning to experiment in some upcoming briefings and call traditional latency= =E2=80=9Cidle latency=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 a measure of latency conducted on= an otherwise idle connection. And then try calling LUL either =E2=80=9Cactive latency=E2=80=9D or perhaps =E2=80=9Cworking latency=E2=80= =9D (suggested by an external colleague =E2=80=93 can=E2=80=99t take credit= for that one) =E2=80=93 to try to communicate it is latency when the conne= ction is experiencing normal usage.

=C2=A0<= /span>

Have any of you here = faced similar challenges explaining this to non-technical audiences? Have y= ou had any success with alternative terms? What do you think of these?

=C2=A0<= /span>

Thanks for any input,=

Jason

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Bloat mailing list
Bloat@list= s.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
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