From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wi0-x235.google.com (mail-wi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90D7621F288 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 07:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wicmx19 with SMTP id mx19so16385370wic.0 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 07:13:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=W07jjoBA80+7E12XhDlnRaqThcADt3gjbut1a2YfPZk=; b=ReBAMzwtMdvZTlIdFpttxPe8Ih0mTPAUeL2ilLH6Xesp8AvgfAq19fqtHB0uW8zfvS 2ptuBeFBA237NxQv57Ff2c6BLtEnU3R0a9NbGe/XmjiL81wSGi2C7WeVK5lLBQ/FLzyB ngznmQTOvus53GtLQEFch5ql7QeJy6RM+R/6zitqJRk4zp+Bs9G0PYNZ4Zcf2h3wD0le urbXDYSF78T00D0bkoo+U+gqnpAlQbnIM94o6mUcMxO6EopObGwGDLUGzT6vZ410Zxyg F7vHsH0FzStWnB3R/0GlgJ489OX3ggdiuDoZ8WvAs4Ap3fUfriczKZCrjqOgNmpw7eAb PUCQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.14.4 with SMTP id l4mr52580016wic.14.1432217616107; Thu, 21 May 2015 07:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Sender: gettysjim@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.118.166 with HTTP; Thu, 21 May 2015 07:13:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <58264BE0-CDBE-4739-B03D-4BAA20B13997@gmail.com> References: <58264BE0-CDBE-4739-B03D-4BAA20B13997@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:13:36 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 1POFAceUP5gniUGKpnjtRwKXVMk Message-ID: From: Jim Gettys To: Rich Brown Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d040f9f523fcf8e0516982644 Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] dslreports mockup X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 14:14:42 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 14:14:42 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 14:14:42 -0000 --f46d040f9f523fcf8e0516982644 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Providing separate grades for upload and download does not make sense to me, as interference with acks in the other direction badly hurts that traffic. Uploads and downloads are *not* independent variables. KISS: one grade.... - Jim On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Rich Brown wrote= : > That is interesting. I'm trying to think how the latency charts could be > misconstrued, since a Y-axis on the right isn't the norm - I don't think > it's hard to understand, but just different. > > The display as-is clearly shows that the download is badly bloated, but > the upload is fine. That's the important message for most people at home. > But as a researcher, you want to understand the details of the upload. So > having different scales would help you see better into the problem. > > * If the download and upload values are substantially similar, the left > and right Y-axis scales should be the same, so there wouldn't be confusio= n > > * If the values are substantially different (as in this screen shot), the > pink and yellow backgrounds (on the left) and the lack of them on the rig= ht > would provide a solid cue that there is something different going on > between the two charts. > > * On the other hand, the report already shows different Y-axis values for > the down/upload speeds, so the latency charts could mimic the speeds... > > Other thoughts? > > Rich > > On May 20, 2015, at 12:46 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > > I wanted to be able to have separated charts for up and down on > > different scales, so I took apart what exists today in gimp and got > > this: > > > > http://snapon.lab.bufferbloat.net/~d/dslreportsmockup.png > > > > I guess it is partially because I am getting a C on the download at > > this speed, and no A+ on the upload, and I would at least like to get > > a gold star from teacher for effort. :/ > > > > I dunno how to fix the download short of getting rid of several > > seconds of inherent buffering in their CMTS. There must be a simple > > way to do that?? > > > > -- > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > > Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** > > > > https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67 > > _______________________________________________ > > Bloat mailing list > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > --f46d040f9f523fcf8e0516982644 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pro= viding separate grades for upload and download does not make sense to me, a= s interference with acks in the other direction badly hurts that traffic. U= ploads and downloads are *not* independent variables.

KISS: one grade....
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Jim


On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Rich Brown &= lt;richb.hanov= er@gmail.com> wrote:
That i= s interesting. I'm trying to think how the latency charts could be misc= onstrued, since a Y-axis on the right isn't the norm - I don't thin= k it's hard to understand, but just different.

The display as-is clearly shows that the download is badly bloated, but the= upload is fine. That's the important message for most people at home.= =C2=A0 But as a researcher, you want to understand the details of the uploa= d. So having different scales would help you see better into the problem.
* If the download and upload values are substantially similar, the left and= right Y-axis scales should be the same, so there wouldn't be confusion=

* If the values are substantially different (as in this screen shot), the p= ink and yellow backgrounds (on the left) and the lack of them on the right = would provide a solid cue that there is something different going on betwee= n the two charts.

* On the other hand, the report already shows different Y-axis values for t= he down/upload speeds, so the latency charts could mimic the speeds...

Other thoughts?

Rich

On May 20, 2015, at 12:46 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wanted to be able to have separated charts for up and down on
> different scales, so I took apart what exists today in gimp and got > this:
>
> http://snapon.lab.bufferbloat.net/~d/dslreportsmockup.png=
>
> I guess it is partially because I am getting a C on the download at > this speed, and no A+ on the upload, and I would at least like to get<= br> > a gold star from teacher for effort. :/
>
> I dunno how to fix the download short of getting rid of several
> seconds of inherent buffering in their CMTS. There must be a simple > way to do that??
>
> --
> Dave T=C3=A4ht
> Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware**
>
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr= 67
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat= .net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat

_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net<= /a>
= https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat

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