From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wi0-x22d.google.com (mail-wi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABD4421F1DA for ; Sun, 17 May 2015 18:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wicmx19 with SMTP id mx19so60487854wic.0 for ; Sun, 17 May 2015 18:58:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=sb9mDEnw/CvQ0uvCH8vI4RHrQxE3Z9ORAwC2UHUJcgQ=; b=rRwe2fAieWi+g2BJjh7cPjMQC+MTDZj8BSuzHbpHCZcOuXU0bDPCDq3WCi/tEJn+PM Vl8iuDBBJwC/xEg4HfT0vnzC/zSK7oRPotVSEXACrdaUTpGqQ5dV10pg9cqgJPG6H5l+ Hxp1IkjApGKe6unDCuDfs2Ifa2Eh46DF3eW0XE9qYigmmeqxdGctehvYONSoqtqZH+bP 21bTkm6OE+7c5F2REqpnW9q4QtJHGZeKP6L3+pU8qQ8vhr2nb2wlpfXAanZCTP6BN5YW U0kRODyn3zP0HWjFWCWg/QHH4MQ8ApJ69iiIbO8G/cmMfYqJNgOmXabrKCxgjFU9xbzQ 12aA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.195.11.3 with SMTP id ee3mr26995089wjd.89.1431914296491; Sun, 17 May 2015 18:58:16 -0700 (PDT) Sender: gettysjim@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.118.166 with HTTP; Sun, 17 May 2015 18:58:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 21:58:16 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: -hLKv-8PUOtOceCOs64-Xqsdd7U Message-ID: From: Jim Gettys To: Rich Brown Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b874e50fdc6b6051651866d Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] General Bufferbloat Testing Document. X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 01:59:23 -0000 --047d7b874e50fdc6b6051651866d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Rich Brown wrote= : > Hi Jim, > > I'm glad you've got this letter going. I have started to write (mentally) > this note several times, but two things always checked my momentum: > > - Last summer, I sent notes asking the big speed test sites simply to add > a latency test. (speedtest.net, testmy.net, speedof.me). All three > responded that (basically) they would ask their developers about it, and > you can see the (non) results. > > - I'm afraid that it's not in their self-interest to add a latency test. > Especially Ookla - I see their test package bundled as part of the offeri= ng > for lots of ISPs. Ookla are hardly going to "enhance" their speed test in > such a way that customer's customers can plainly see, "Congratulations on > starting your service with us. You can see your speeds are pretty good, b= ut > you get an F- for bufferbloat." > =E2=80=8BActually, I had a conversation a couple months ago with Doug Suttl= es at Ookla. He said they were interested/willing to add a bufferbloat test. That's what spurred writing the document: to make their job easier; I promised Doug on that phone call to write such a document. Now we'll see if he follows through. Note that some ISP's are actively interested in getting bufferbloat fixed (e.g. Comcast, just look at Jason Livingood's recent tweets). Bufferbloat is between ISP's and the ability to provide better low latency services, and some ISP's are wise enough to understand that. So I don't think it's quite the situation that it appears on the surface. > > The latter point is the reason that I'm so glad that Justin has added the > latency test. DSLReports.com doesn't have any sacred cows to protect, so > they're free to call it as it is. And I also love that they do it with a > letter grade: "Hey, dude. Your connection is bloated, and you get a D". > > =E2=80=8BI'm very happy to see DSLreport's test indeed. I hope it encourag= es the other testing services to follow through. =E2=80=8BIf you have contacts at those services, please send them a link to= the document.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8B > There is still a long row to hoe, but as more and more people get > de-bloated, the test will help spread around the knowledge that "it doesn= 't > have to be that way". > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > =E2=80=8BYup. Jim =E2=80=8B > > Rich > > > On May 15, 2015, at 12:16 PM, Jim Gettys wrote: > > Even before I knew about the wonderful DSLreports bufferbloat test, I had > started working on a document to help people like that (e.g. Ookla) > understand how to do bufferbloat testing. The document also grew a bit > beyond that topic, by the time it was done.... > > The document is at: > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z5NN4WRKQKK-RtxtKR__XIwkybvsKEmunek2E= zdw_90/edit?usp=3Dsharing > > Comments welcome. > > It's intended long term home is the bufferbloat.net wiki, but I've found > Google doc's commenting feature really useful. > - Jim > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > > --047d7b874e50fdc6b6051651866d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Ma= y 16, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Rich Brown <richb.hanover@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Jim= ,

I'm glad you've got this letter going. I have = started to write (mentally) this note several times, but two things always = checked my momentum:

- Last summer, I sent notes a= sking the big speed test sites simply to add a latency test. (speedtest.net, testmy.net, speedof.me). All three responded that (basically) th= ey would ask their developers about it, and you can see the (non) results.= =C2=A0

- I'm afraid that it's not in their= self-interest to add a latency test. Especially Ookla - I see their test p= ackage bundled as part of the offering for lots of ISPs. Ookla are hardly g= oing to "enhance" their speed test in such a way that customer= 9;s customers can plainly see, "Congratulations on starting your servi= ce with us. You can see your speeds are pretty good, but you get an F- for = bufferbloat."

=E2=80=8BActually, I had a conversati= on a couple months ago with Doug Suttles at Ookla.=C2=A0 He said they were = interested/willing to add a bufferbloat test.

That's what spurred writing the document: to make = their job easier; I promised Doug on that phone call to write such a docume= nt.

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Now we'll see if = he follows through.

Note = that some ISP's are actively interested in getting bufferbloat fixed (e= .g. Comcast, just look at Jason Livingood's recent tweets).=C2=A0 Buffe= rbloat is between ISP's and the ability to provide better low latency s= ervices, and some ISP's are wise enough to understand that.

So I don't think it's quite = the situation that it appears on the surface.

The latter point is the re= ason that I'm so glad that Justin has added the latency test. DSLReports.com doesn't= have any sacred cows to protect, so they're free to call it as it is. = And I also love that they do it with a letter grade: "Hey, dude. Your = connection is bloated, and you get a D".


=E2=80=8BI'm very happy to see DSLreport's= test indeed.=C2=A0 I hope it encourages the other testing services to foll= ow through.

=E2=80=8BIf you have contacts at those services, pl= ease send them a link to the document.=E2=80=8B

=E2=80=8B
=C2=A0
There is still a long row to hoe, but as more and mor= e people get de-bloated, the test will help spread around the knowledge tha= t "it doesn't have to be that way".=C2=A0
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
<= /div>

=E2=80=8BYup.

<= /div>
Jim
=E2=80=8B
=C2=A0

Rich


On May 15, 2015, at 12:16 PM, Jim Gettys <<= a href=3D"mailto:jg@freedesktop.org" target=3D"_blank">jg@freedesktop.org> wrote:

Even before I knew about the wonderful DSLre= ports bufferbloat test, I had started working on a document to help people = like that (e.g. Ookla) understand how to do bufferbloat testing.=C2=A0 The = document also grew a bit beyond that topic, by the time it was done....

The document is at:


Comments welcome.=C2=A0

It's intended long term home is the bufferbloat.net wiki, but I've found Goog= le doc's commenting feature really useful.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0- Jim

_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@lists.= bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
=


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