From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi0-x230.google.com (mail-oi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02D6B21F248; Sun, 1 Mar 2015 17:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-f48.google.com with SMTP id a3so24448060oib.7; Sun, 01 Mar 2015 17:10:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=OesKfubefATjnSJNHjKEuq+fwl/QzPgcU0xULyV7d1k=; b=VuGwps97vdl9kAg2/Rq8NuOQhhdqxd31QswgCUQlry4swHU8DyiasxYwZwysc6nIiM wph9+SMi7+z4So47nqCsttmDz2adK9zP3KxpCzF1SXXlI0CNZi2Y3TZEqTwLAS97I2V8 1aI0N+q8dNB4ibzkL8cGHtfPhW7yVE00DSVjNix/+uwogdqegQkLiwD+wgZHxq6aFEMz OULnkzNEoQpVeqt1E+OOe7TG2IT6t5f2Fv7VBkZ2hWPlPqiBvU0jjD9Yl1WFUl+3GY4t O1Rm1qRbuyJdyxlleROK0TunfCueWqY8wJgKJYSEq0aHhxn+inExrmrBoIFx6xoRhfgb 2xMQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.46.36 with SMTP id s4mr17383082oem.66.1425258652291; Sun, 01 Mar 2015 17:10:52 -0800 (PST) Sender: gettysjim@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.76.37 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Mar 2015 17:10:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 20:10:52 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: _XkUwS6B-M7yicotavE3Vg-c0s4 Message-ID: From: Jim Gettys To: Aaron Wood Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01536eb2aed953051043e39a Cc: bloat , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "aqm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Bloat] Bufferbloat and the policy debate on packet loss in nanog X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 01:11:22 -0000 --089e01536eb2aed953051043e39a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 7:56 PM, Aaron Wood wrote: > But until the silicon vendors update _their_ forks of OpenWRT, > commercially available home routers won't have these benefits. Because t= he > home router market is dominated by packaged reference designs from one of= a > very small number of companies that actually make all the chipsets (Dave,= I > know you know this, I'm mostly just choir-preaching myself). > =E2=80=8BI was talking to one of the major chipset vendors just this last T= hursday.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8B We have to fork-lift upgrade all of these devices, ASAP. And change how we build/maintain these systems, and do business in embedded systems. See my Berkman Center talk here: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/events/luncheon/2014/06/gettys=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BWe'll be struggling with the policies issues the rest of our lives= (which is why I presented to the Berkman Center). Also read Dan Geer's policy piece in Lawfare the Lawfare blog. http://www.lawfareblog.com/2014/04/heartbleed-as-metaphor/ Bruce Schneier's piece in Wired on the IOT is also very good, but aimed at a mass audience. I will be publishing and updated version of the talk very soon; the situation is yet more perilous since June, and my explanations clearer. Jim =E2=80=8B > -Aaron > > On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > >> There's nothing new here, but it was a nice rant to get out of my system= : >> >> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.operators.nanog/128201 >> >> Of late, I have been taking a page from Linus Torvalds' playbook, in >> realizing that "on the internet, no-one can hear you being subtle", >> and BOY, am I done with that. >> >> -- >> Dave T=C3=A4ht >> Let's make wifi fast, less jittery and reliable again! >> >> https://plus.google.com/u/0/107942175615993706558/posts/TVX3o84jjmb >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > --089e01536eb2aed953051043e39a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Ma= r 1, 2015 at 7:56 PM, Aaron Wood <woody77@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
But until the silicon vendors update _= their_ forks of OpenWRT, commercially available home routers won't have= these benefits.=C2=A0 Because the home router market is dominated by packa= ged reference designs from one of a very small number of companies that act= ually make all the chipsets (Dave, I know you know this, I'm mostly jus= t choir-preaching myself).

=E2=80=8BI was = talking to one of the major chipset vendors just this last Thursday.=E2=80= =8B
=C2=A0

=E2=80=8B
We have to fork-lift upg= rade all of these devices, ASAP.

And change how we build/maintain these syste= ms, and do business in embedded systems.
=
See my Berkman Center talk here:


=E2=80=8BWe'll be = struggling with the policies issues the rest of our lives (which is why I p= resented to the Berkman Center).

Also read Dan Geer's policy piece in Lawfare the Lawfare blog.<= /div>

http://www.lawfareblog.com/2014/04/heartbleed-as-= metaphor/

Bruce Schneier's piece in Wired on the IOT = is also very good, but aimed at a mass audience.

I will be publishing and updated version of the tal= k very soon; the situation is yet more perilous since June, and my explanat= ions clearer.
<= br>
Jim

=E2=80=8B


-Aaron

_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net<= /a>
= https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat


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