From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm0-x234.google.com (mail-wm0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D20803B2A4 for ; Fri, 3 Feb 2017 15:33:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-wm0-x234.google.com with SMTP id 196so17903091wmm.1 for ; Fri, 03 Feb 2017 12:33:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=I/yfW3xBfS0IaW3pgzQvLQbmvfQiwqcroAtT6awt7eU=; b=QmOK78VYIhhzxjVDvZBM+K4bYnSBQCmCyrZt2TJZjjqkR0GeMglEIw+mKNM0ooDlyy mhC8e8jLEsmTvrweuvmy+yOWc7LX/8kXyqPv9ZTJcJP2p2QswfwQnXPJuKM62FCOK9Yw srcGUYk45RhyUrX7rtkCKB5XLd7H1njFAwiGmvYqBnfjYsL6ykVrQaL4paVB79NzaD9l RkdY8JG4Be23p7SRz7YZhmYHwPszRY4AFh/j0lMDQmXVlbAc/XVZhIcFFE5Utnohq105 x97AB0F0cLvpP7smArWnwwngDHcpoGLf+IuxHO2bSotcJ8FfUnRrfNpEJXMxZF2zNGWW oiZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=I/yfW3xBfS0IaW3pgzQvLQbmvfQiwqcroAtT6awt7eU=; b=BX7EY6YvngKZ5uhgw2i+EVxaCiNYCfg+QhOaj4Dnm1hjLg1wtZwCov26nzq/+Qny9h 9hYmkXPsxF0VCEjuH5nudI7SmHbN0sXKmjtSh+Ia7lph237Jw63aIFvdYgCjL6EQxUCA anhmM3jldQ7V4fswrXy08gQe1D1W3hbSCs+XmZBx9Cnzc9C9v7Wlzkn84i+6pySLETSq e1WppQPLrpTVWyPaIM16jF1oqSA0RdgOoAU2DjHMSSwfVumJ6GeGh/Tb61AfrnAJH/Zc XD/kS1FwNmqSv2GX+twj1v7wSKJ1lMLi5VKkPjpLyQd6w8QwQsVlO/y50rk5VuHUw93/ mYwg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39mCOvNXt120CcrVgzD2l+wlX09xv5jrVstpXgobRNfYAiMn26DvLYzYUDwZjjD1/LnZLOmb6Zm+F7t/EQ== X-Received: by 10.28.140.140 with SMTP id o134mr3076620wmd.87.1486153985891; Fri, 03 Feb 2017 12:33:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gettysjim@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.48.12 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Feb 2017 12:33:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <18360404-E05A-4E0F-80E4-DB24056F8A2C@gmail.com> <43078D05-5D0E-49D0-B467-A414EDD334FE@gmail.com> From: Jim Gettys Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 15:33:05 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: nLURSx-TYg31-4byyUSLiRpYXik Message-ID: To: David Lang Cc: Rich Brown , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1145b0386925db0547a63012 Subject: Re: [Bloat] I wrote a blog entry about devices I know of out there... X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 20:33:07 -0000 --001a1145b0386925db0547a63012 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 3:11 PM, David Lang wrote: > On Fri, 3 Feb 2017, Rich Brown wrote: > > On Feb 3, 2017, at 2:50 PM, David Lang wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, 3 Feb 2017, Rich Brown wrote: >>> >>> Friends in town say that Fairpoint recommends a Zyxel VMG4380-B10A mode= m >>>> for bonded pairs. They seem to have fairly good luck with it. >>>> >>> >>> I've got a VMG4325-B10A and it's horrific, still running a 2.6 kernel. = I >>> routinely have several seconds of buffering on my upload. according to = the >>> Zyxel site, the 4380 has a coax connection. >>> >> >> Yes, that's why it makes sense to stick LEDE in series with the Zyxel, t= o >> let LEDE handle the queueing. >> > > the trouble is that to do this, you have to set the outbound speed well > below the actual speed, and when you only have 2Mb to start with... > > I've actually never seen a Zyxel, so can't speak to the connectors. >> Hmmm... The Zyxel specs at https://www.zyxel.com/me/en/pr >> omotions/promotion_20130416_076615_me_en.shtml show the 4380 as having >> both a GbE connector (as if... :-) and a coax HPNA connector. >> > > Yes, this series has a Gig-E as well as the DSL/Coax WAN connector(s) > > It's really a horrible, overbuffered, limited firmware from the factory > (the "firewall" has three settings for example) > > I'm looking for a replacement for it, and when you spoke of people > recommending it, I have to disagree with them. > > =E2=80=8B The Evenroute guys ship a DSL modem with their router in their current product. It's based on a recent Openwrt. Installation was pretty sane, though there can be a hiccup in the installation if your ISP runs PPOE, as you need the account credentials for the line (a username/password pair). I found them on a label on the old DSL modem being replaced in one of the two installation experiences. Evenroute is improving the installation directions as we speak. Their installation directions were already better than for most devices; the biggest problem we ran into was for PPOE. So I can recommend going with their product; the first time I've been able to make any recommendation for anyone on DSL short of just neutering the existing router with a second one able to run SQM. They are looking into trying to support an integrated modem/router when they can get a suitable one (probably based on a Lantiq chip, for which there are open source drivers). If anyone has experience with one of these Lantiq based integrated routers, I'm sure we'd all like to hear about it... The other headache in DSL is that some ISP's don't actually give you the bandwidth you pay for and the bandwidth varies widely during the day; so dynamic adjustment of the bandwidth may be necessary on some ISP's. As far as I'm concerned, that's the killer app for Evenroute's product, with a close second that they monitor your DSL modem for SNR and signal strength and errors for you, making arguing with your ISP easier. - Jim --001a1145b0386925db0547a63012 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, Fe= b 3, 2017 at 3:11 PM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017, Rich Brown w= rote:

On Feb 3, 2017, at 2:50 PM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017, Rich Brown wrote:

Friends in town say that Fairpoint recommends a Zyxel VMG4380-B10A modem fo= r bonded pairs. They seem to have fairly good luck with it.

I've got a VMG4325-B10A and it's horrific, still running a 2.6 kern= el. I routinely have several seconds of buffering on my upload. according t= o the Zyxel site, the 4380 has a coax connection.

Yes, that's why it makes sense to stick LEDE in series with the Zyxel, = to let LEDE handle the queueing.

 the trouble is that to do this, you have to set the outbound speed well bel= ow the actual speed, and when you only have 2Mb to start with...

I've actually never seen a Zyxel, so can't speak to the connectors.= Hmmm... The Zyxel specs at https://www.zyxel.com/me/en/promotions/promotion_20130416_076= 615_me_en.shtml show the 4380 as having both a GbE connector (as if... = :-) and a coax HPNA connector.

 Yes, this series has a Gig-E as well as the DSL/Coax WAN connector(s)

It's really a horrible, overbuffered, limited firmware from the factory= (the "firewall" has three settings for example)

I'm looking for a replacement for it, and when you spoke of people reco= mmending it, I have to disagree with them.

=E2=80=8B
The Evenroute guys ship a DSL modem with their router in their curren= t product. It's based on a recent Openwrt.=C2=A0

Installation was pretty sane, though there can = be a hiccup in the installation if your ISP runs PPOE, as you need the acco= unt credentials for the line (a username/password pair). I found them on a = label on the old DSL modem being replaced in one of the two installation ex= periences. Evenroute is improving the installation directions as we speak.<= /div>
Their installat= ion directions were already better than for most devices; the biggest probl= em we ran into was for PPOE.=C2=A0 So I can recommend going with their prod= uct; the first time I've been able to make any recommendation for anyon= e on DSL short of just neutering the existing router with a second one able= to run SQM.
They are loo= king into trying to support an integrated modem/router when they can get a = suitable one (probably based on a Lantiq chip, for which there are open sou= rce drivers).
I= f anyone has experience with one of these Lantiq based integrated routers, = I'm sure we'd all like to hear about it...

The other headache in DSL is that some ISP's = don't actually give you the bandwidth you pay for and the bandwidth var= ies widely during the day; so dynamic adjustment of the bandwidth may be ne= cessary on some ISP's. As far as I'm concerned, that's the kill= er app for Evenroute's product, with a close second that they monitor y= our DSL modem for SNR and signal strength and errors for you, making arguin= g with your ISP easier.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Jim






<= /div>
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