From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ig0-x235.google.com (mail-ig0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E802521F217 for ; Sun, 24 May 2015 21:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by igbhj9 with SMTP id hj9so29664088igb.1 for ; Sun, 24 May 2015 21:07:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:cc:content-type; bh=cMIPzmlBFqGZDPf8D8hzETrOVBXE1cIZPEkOkebjOyw=; b=KtzEDd+PhrU1AQrmfzkEIp2BUIW7vMhRj7kd4T+in0rxJwczHy/Mt2wPOh49cGG/dR SUlTJUmzcwb4B0HKXdelr3iqPXDrWbXJbb2UKHI2RbgGCX1KSzP6AT7i/jDW0zE0q+/M Z7MjPWl72L9hEfKkPn7uFDg8ZnwIsqhf6/F23mudo9xG/+gNN+uryxXO/QiQkgJ4Api9 3gFsBtIorZBy3bBircHrMyETqQy9UGFdow3yb6RE9SQSipnBzYlyZOVZReTeTNA7//E8 +ix0PSw82WjHokNQhn3B/msd7zFxrf7rXS0GWihBdgoDHv9fAgzBRGWXc4pRxLAabwC+ E8Iw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.43.63.76 with SMTP id xd12mr22640027icb.11.1432526845108; Sun, 24 May 2015 21:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Sender: justinbeech@gmail.com Received: by 10.50.107.42 with HTTP; Sun, 24 May 2015 21:07:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <58264BE0-CDBE-4739-B03D-4BAA20B13997@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 14:07:24 +1000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: hAtGmhoPlkkKxybcQFieBfNEkFQ Message-ID: From: jb Cc: bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51a8a96bbeaab0516e02565 Subject: Re: [Bloat] dslreports mockup X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 04:07:56 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 04:07:56 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 04:07:56 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 04:07:56 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 04:07:56 -0000 --bcaec51a8a96bbeaab0516e02565 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I did move the half-moon gauge up into the green "ping" block. Over time the intention will be to grade a result on more than one category, not just for buffer bloat. For example, recognition of excessive latency to everywhere, or a poor speed compared to peers in the same country on the same tech, or incorporation of the jitter test result, or other yet to be determined metrics. Then an over-all grade that is a summation of everything because people want one answer: is my connection good or not right now, & has it got worse over time? or better. Putting a buffer bloat grade front and centre makes it purely a buffer-bloat test. So I'll probably have to re-arrange the positioning of grades and so on, and probably also have to stop calling it a "speed test" as well because the speed race is probably over with imminent availability of home connections faster than one can reasonably use. The median connection speed for fios or comcast users running the test is about 50 mbit. Most of those connections are idle all day. On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 2:58 AM, Dave Taht wrote: > On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Sebastian Moeller > wrote: > > Hi jb, > > > > > > On May 23, 2015, at 03:56 , jb wrote: > > > >> I can add error bars to the combined columns. I think that will help. > > > > This is quite helpful, what exactly are the =E2=80=9Cerror bars= =E2=80=9D showing? > > I am loving seeing the error bars. The general public won't understand > them but a ton of other people do, and I can live with that. > > and loving being able to click on the bars for more detail. > > Aside from wanting: > > A) the grade center/top as per the mockup. > B) some more apparent indicator of the detailed graphs available (like > rotating between them on initial view) > C) the bloat tach front and center during the test > D) the different number of flows tests NOT broken up by "technology" > but by extremity, and calling out wifi VERY explicitly > (I can do a mock up of this if my prior description was not good enough) > E) World Peace > > I'm pretty happy with this (and just in awe of how much work is > required to deploy a web browser based application) > > >I would vote for 2 and 98 percent qantiles. > > I think these are max and min, unfiltered. There are not enough > samples in the default test (1/sec) to get higher resolution (although > I run the hires bloat test and would certainly prefer that a minimum > of 100ms sampling rate was used for all - 20ms would be better). But 2 > and 98 if possible would be better than max/min, (with sufficient > samples). > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-number_summary is fun because it > depends on a normally distributed model, which this stuff isn't. (I'd > like to see this for flent, also) > > I would like to see the algorithm(s) for this documented sufficiently > somewhere... (and to finish duplicating the work in flent) > > >I note that I have seen several times that both error bars (low and high= ) > of the idle category seems to be displayed above the bar, like levitating > above the bar. Could be display error on my end, but I guess the bars sho= w > something meaningful and I just do not know how to parse it correctly=E2= =80=A6 > > > > Best Regards > > Sebastian > > > >> > >> On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 10:55 AM, David Lang wrote: > >> On Thu, 21 May 2015, Jim Gettys wrote: > >> > >> Providing separate grades for upload and download does not make sense = to > >> me, as interference with acks in the other direction badly hurts that > >> traffic. Uploads and downloads are *not* independent variables. > >> > >> KISS: one grade.... > >> - Jim > >> > >> yes and no. > >> > >> If I am getting a bad grade, will replacing my local router help? or i= s > all the problem on the ISPs equipment? > >> > >> having upload getting an A+ due to running good, debloated systems > locally, but the download getting a F due to the ISP buffering would be > meaningful. > >> > >> David Lang > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bloat mailing list > >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bloat mailing list > >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bloat mailing list > >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bloat mailing list > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > > > -- > Dave T=C3=A4ht > Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** > > https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67 > --bcaec51a8a96bbeaab0516e02565 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I did move the half-moon gauge up into the green "pin= g" block.

Over time the intention will be to grade = a result on more than one
category, not just for buffer bloat. Fo= r example, recognition of=C2=A0
excessive latency to everywhere, = or a poor speed compared to peers
in the same country on the same= tech, or incorporation of the jitter
test result, or other yet t= o be determined metrics. Then an over-all
grade that is a summati= on of everything because people want
one answer: is my connection= good or not right now, & has it got worse
over time? or bett= er. Putting a buffer bloat grade front and centre
makes it purely= a buffer-bloat test.

So I'll probably have to= re-arrange the positioning of grades and so
on, and probably= also have to stop calling it a "speed test" as well
be= cause the speed race is probably over with imminent availability
= of home connections faster than one can reasonably use. The median
connection speed for fios or comcast users running the test is about
50 mbit. Most of those connections are idle all day.

On Mon, May 25, 2015 a= t 2:58 AM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 2:43 PM,= Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi jb,
>
>
> On May 23, 2015, at 03:56 , jb <= justin@dslr.net> wrote:
>
>> I can add error bars to the combined columns. I think that will he= lp.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This is quite helpful, what exactly a= re the =E2=80=9Cerror bars=E2=80=9D showing?

I am loving seeing the error bars. The general public won't unde= rstand
them but a ton of other people do, and I can live with that.

and loving being able to click on the bars for more detail.

Aside from wanting:

A) the grade center/top=C2=A0 as per the mockup.
B) some more apparent indicator of the detailed graphs available (like
rotating between them on initial view)
C) the bloat tach front and center during the test
D) the different number of flows tests NOT broken up by "technology&qu= ot;
but by extremity, and calling out wifi VERY explicitly
(I can do a mock up of this if my prior description was not good enough) E) World Peace

I'm pretty happy with this (and just in awe of how much work is
required to deploy a web browser based application)

>I would vote for 2 and 98 percent qantiles.

I think these are max and min, unfiltered. There are not enough
samples in the default test (1/sec) to get higher resolution (although
I run the hires bloat test and would certainly prefer that a minimum
of 100ms sampling rate was used for all - 20ms would be better). But 2
and 98 if possible would be better than max/min, (with sufficient
samples).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-number_summary is fun because i= t
depends on a normally distributed model, which this stuff isn't. (I'= ;d
like to see this for flent, also)

I would like to see the algorithm(s) for this documented sufficiently
somewhere... (and to finish duplicating the work in flent)

>I note that I have seen several times that both error bars (low and hig= h) of the idle category seems to be displayed above the bar, like levitatin= g above the bar. Could be display error on my end, but I guess the bars sho= w something meaningful and I just do not know how to parse it correctly=E2= =80=A6
>
> Best Regards
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sebastian
>
>>
>> On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 10:55 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 May 2015, Jim Gettys wrote:
>>
>> Providing separate grades for upload and download does not make se= nse to
>> me, as interference with acks in the other direction badly hurts t= hat
>> traffic. Uploads and downloads are *not* independent variables. >>
>> KISS: one grade....
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Ji= m
>>
>> yes and no.
>>
>> If I am getting a bad grade, will replacing my local router help? = or is all the problem on the ISPs equipment?
>>
>> having upload getting an A+ due to running good, debloated systems= locally, but the download getting a F due to the ISP buffering would be me= aningful.
>>
>> David Lang
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bloat mailing list
>> Bloat@lists.bufferb= loat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bloat mailing list
>> Bloat@lists.bufferb= loat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bloat mailing list
>> Bloat@lists.bufferb= loat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat= .net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat



--
Dave T=C3=A4ht
Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware**

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67

--bcaec51a8a96bbeaab0516e02565--