From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ig0-x234.google.com (mail-ig0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AC4021F0BC for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iget9 with SMTP id t9so4684793ige.1 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:49:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=fua1plp5ZEhGSPTTIAoC/SSuSa+52xFkSry6KfvRq9k=; b=uRflC1ayVM2QZmfFTZ9sJHFqC0A3tycnUcAYoB6YrysfQbnQDebD3BVyapsRXxjoA4 M/MXZIagGFnuZc17yW6O/6AVlHdVOx7YtnATMwK+dFx0qrD710/VBZtUOZyZILXRe2BS i+tWP/jNtH8ct+tEfOd0YlsVStQ+JKUuhA/6hYM2Fidy5K/Vvejc3UmfyzSsAyE6ee0T vvADuaTAVHgPPxh6L7v4SKCOjtcE/M7eImsQWfhu4me1zzDDGF+/8JIIeVW64l2Q6oAx hup269NZ7EK9NmgwKGTxXROwjWyAoR49nGi6OZpdKPtSStvQw3BtvkYsCg3w35zSUwmx 7+BQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.43.63.76 with SMTP id xd12mr7550001icb.11.1430372993263; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Sender: justinbeech@gmail.com Received: by 10.50.107.42 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Apr 2015 22:49:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <87618e6gkm.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 15:49:53 +1000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5mLkGWN1LKRLI3Y5rZJkfNY5m4c Message-ID: From: jb To: Dave Taht , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51a8a9628f9b60514eaaace Subject: Re: [Bloat] extremely good dslreports result for bufferbloat on free.fr X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:50:22 -0000 --bcaec51a8a9628f9b60514eaaace Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > 2) fq_codel with ECN enabled. Puzzled as to why this would not be an A+ Hah blame your own standards :) The idle minimum was 66ms The median down was +4.5ms higher The median up was +5.5ms higher the average of 4,5 and 5.5 is 5.0 which puts it as an "A" but if it was a <=3D rather than a < it might have been an A+ Can't go handing out A+ like candy. (happy to change this, if you think it is unrealistically tough, for example, average of idle vs median of up/down). I wanted to avoid outliers upsetting things. On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > 1) From an OSX box over ethernet to the router. > > Normal comcast blast service with no shaping: > > F: http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/394057 > > 2) fq_codel with ECN enabled. Puzzled as to why this would not be an A+ > > A: http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/394059 > > qdisc fq_codel 120: parent 1:12 limit 1001p flows 1024 quantum 300 > target 5.0ms interval 100.0ms ecn > Sent 16656658 bytes 29867 pkt (dropped 408, overlimits 0 requeues 0) > backlog 0b 0p requeues 0 > maxpacket 1514 drop_overlimit 0 new_flow_count 11758 ecn_mark 9609 > new_flows_len 1 old_flows_len 5 > > 3) fq_codel, no ECN > > http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/394097 > > qdisc fq_codel 120: parent 1:12 limit 1001p flows 1024 quantum 300 > target 5.0ms interval 100.0ms > Sent 22610612 bytes 54551 pkt (dropped 1454, overlimits 0 requeues 0) > backlog 0b 0p requeues 0 > maxpacket 1514 drop_overlimit 0 new_flow_count 24747 ecn_mark 0 > new_flows_len 1 old_flows_len 3 > > (for anyone puzzled as to why there are so many ecn marks compared to > drops in these two, I have continually made the point that dropping > clears the congestion immediately, (particularly with IW stuff) - but > it is ok to mark a lot so long as it is ultimately effective within > multiple RTTs. > > 4) pie with ecn gets an A, where I would give it a B at best. > > http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/394114 > > qdisc pie 120: parent 1:12 limit 1001p target 5.0ms tupdate 30.0ms > alpha 2 beta 20 ecn > Sent 21363840 bytes 42994 pkt (dropped 1478, overlimits 0 requeues 0) > backlog 0b 0p requeues 0 > prob 0.000000 delay 0us avg_dq_rate 0 > pkts_in 42994 overlimit 0 dropped 1478 maxq 82 ecn_mark 96 > > 5) Linux codel really struggles to get it down on inbound, getting a > deserved C: > > http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/394129 > > 6) ns2_codel does mildly better, but still struggles with this workload > > http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/394138 > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:55 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > About to go try disabling the shaper here... > > > > But I might argue for getting best results you should add buttons for > > > > fiber cable dsl > > wifi wifi wifi > > > > Because wifi itself is so jittery, and it would be good to distinguish > > ethernet results from wifi ones in your db. > > > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > >> A: (fq_codel no ecn) (http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/393466 > >> > >> A+ (fq_codel + ecn was enabled) > http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/393300 > >> > >> A: (fq_codel) http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/393241 > >> > >> A: (fq_codel) http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/391178 > >> > >> D: (fq_codel on the link but over wifi) > >> http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/391178 > >> > >> Lemme go check native comcast and pie.... > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:33 PM, jb wrote: > >>> yes it did get no rating, I don't generate ratings unless everything > looks > >>> "right", > >>> meaning a decent number of down idle and up pings. > >>> > >>> http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/377563 > >>> > >>> There are only 6 latency samples during download, even though the > download > >>> phase started at the 12 second mark and continued until the 23 second > mark, > >>> (meaning 11 seconds). > >>> > >>> The latency pings that happened during the download got held up to th= e > >>> extent > >>> that they came in and were counted as "idle" ones. I'll have to ponde= r > on > >>> this, > >>> I think my pings need to be labelled by origin (what we were doing > when they > >>> were sent) not classified as they return. > >>> > >>> if it did get a rating it would be an "D" or "F".. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Dave Taht > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Heh. Anything above a 250ms gets a F from me. But I strongly approve > >>>> of simplification to a set of grades. > >>>> > >>>> http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/378980 F, for sure. > >>>> > >>>> Secondly, we tend to regard bufferbloat as one word not two. > >>>> > >>>> This result got no rating. http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/37756= 3 > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:07 PM, jb wrote: > >>>> > I've added the discussed "bloat rating". > >>>> > > >>>> > It takes the idle period before download uses the lowest latency a= s > a > >>>> > baseline. > >>>> > then it takes the median download and median of upload+trailing id= le > >>>> > time, > >>>> > and > >>>> > subtracts to get the latency increase, then converts to a grade. > >>>> > > >>>> > Based on a very few results I've looked at the Grade seems > reasonable. > >>>> > I've > >>>> > added > >>>> > a link below the grade for the WTF is this moment a lot of people > will > >>>> > have, > >>>> > which > >>>> > takes them to a short FAQ entry, and then a link to bufferbloat.ne= t > .. > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:32 AM, Dave Taht > wrote: > >>>> >> > >>>> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Juliusz Chroboczek > >>>> >> wrote: > >>>> >> > Free.fr (Proxad) is certainly much better than other ISPs -- > they've > >>>> >> > been > >>>> >> > the first to give sort-of-native (6rd) IPv6 to the masses. > However, > >>>> >> > there's one thing that annoys me -- they have two distinct CPEs= , > the > >>>> >> > classic FreeBox (which I have) and the FreeBox Revolution (whic= h > is > >>>> >> > slightly less cheap, and takes more physical space -- a big dea= l > if > >>>> >> > you > >>>> >> > live in Paris). The classic FreeBox needs some love from the > >>>> >> > firmware > >>>> >> > developers, and I'd be curious to know whether your results app= ly > >>>> >> > equally > >>>> >> > to both boxen. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> All ya gotta do is run the new dslreports and/or rrul test(s) on > your > >>>> >> own older box, and post. ;) > >>>> >> > >>>> >> My understanding was that the old freebox was too weak to run > anything > >>>> >> but SFQ, but it did run that on the outbound. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > (The thing that most pisses me off with the classic FreeBox is > that > >>>> >> > it > >>>> >> > doesn't allow IPv6 subnetting -- unless you order the FreeBox > >>>> >> > Revolution, > >>>> >> > you're condemned to the purgatory of ND-proxying. Grr.) > >>>> >> > >>>> >> As tiny as the mods now are to support more extensive ipv6 in > openwrt, > >>>> >> that certainly was not the case in 2012. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > -- Juliusz > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> -- > >>>> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht > >>>> >> Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** > >>>> >> > >>>> >> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67 > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> Bloat mailing list > >>>> >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht > >>>> Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** > >>>> > >>>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67 > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Dave T=C3=A4ht > >> Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** > >> > >> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67 > > > > > > > > -- > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > > Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** > > > > https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67 > > > > -- > Dave T=C3=A4ht > Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** > > https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67 > --bcaec51a8a9628f9b60514eaaace Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>=C2=A02) fq_codel with = ECN enabled. Puzzled as to why this would not be an A+

Ha= h blame your own standards :)

The idle minimum was= 66ms
The median down was +4.5ms higher
The median up w= as +5.5ms higher

the average of 4,5 and 5.5 is 5.0= which puts it as an "A"
but if it was a <=3D rather= than a < it might have been an A+

Can't go= handing out A+ like candy.
(happy to change this, if you think i= t is unrealistically tough, for example, average
of idle vs media= n of up/down). I wanted to avoid outliers upsetting things.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 = at 3:23 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
1) From an OSX box over ethernet to the router.<= br>
Normal comcast blast service with no shaping:

F: http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/394057

2) fq_codel with ECN enabled. Puzzled as to why this would not be an A+

A: http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/394059

qdisc fq_codel 120: parent 1:12 limit 1001p flows 1024 quantum 300
target 5.0ms interval 100.0ms ecn
=C2=A0Sent 16656658 bytes 29867 pkt (dropped 408, overlimits 0 requeues 0)<= br> =C2=A0backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
=C2=A0 maxpacket 1514 drop_overlimit 0 new_flow_count 11758 ecn_mark 9609 =C2=A0 new_flows_len 1 old_flows_len 5

3) fq_codel, no ECN

ht= tp://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/394097

qdisc fq_codel 120: parent 1:12 limit 1001p flows 1024 quantum 300
target 5.0ms interval 100.0ms
=C2=A0Sent 22610612 bytes 54551 pkt (dropped 1454, overlimits 0 requeues 0)=
=C2=A0backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
=C2=A0 maxpacket 1514 drop_overlimit 0 new_flow_count 24747 ecn_mark 0
=C2=A0 new_flows_len 1 old_flows_len 3

(for anyone puzzled as to why there are so many ecn marks compared to
drops in these two, I have continually made the point that dropping
clears the congestion immediately, (particularly with IW stuff) - but
it is ok to mark a lot so long as it is ultimately effective within
multiple RTTs.

4) pie with ecn gets an A, where I would give it a B at best.

ht= tp://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/394114

qdisc pie 120: parent 1:12 limit 1001p target 5.0ms tupdate 30.0ms
alpha 2 beta 20 ecn
=C2=A0Sent 21363840 bytes 42994 pkt (dropped 1478, overlimits 0 requeues 0)=
=C2=A0backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
prob 0.000000 delay 0us avg_dq_rate 0
pkts_in 42994 overlimit 0 dropped 1478 maxq 82 ecn_mark 96

5) Linux codel really struggles to get it down on inbound, getting a deserv= ed C:

ht= tp://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/394129

6) ns2_codel does mildly better, but still struggles with this workload

ht= tp://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/394138

On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:55 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> About to go try disabling the shaper here...
>
> But I might argue for getting best results you should add buttons for<= br> >
> fiber cable dsl
> wifi=C2=A0 =C2=A0wifi=C2=A0 =C2=A0 wifi
>
> Because wifi itself is so jittery, and it would be good to distinguish=
> ethernet results from wifi ones in your db.
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> A: (fq_codel no ecn) (http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/393466=
>>
>> A+ (fq_codel + ecn was enabled) http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/= 393300
>>
>> A: (fq_codel) http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/393241
>>
>> A: (fq_codel) http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/391178
>>
>> D: (fq_codel on the link but over wifi)
>> http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/391178
>>
>> Lemme go check native comcast and pie....
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:33 PM, jb <justin@dslr.net> wrote:
>>> yes it did get no rating, I don't generate ratings unless = everything looks
>>> "right",
>>> meaning a decent number of down idle and up pings.
>>>
>>> http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/377563
>>>
>>> There are only 6 latency samples during download, even though = the download
>>> phase started at the 12 second mark and continued until the 23= second mark,
>>> (meaning 11 seconds).
>>>
>>> The latency pings that happened during the download got held u= p to the
>>> extent
>>> that they came in and were counted as "idle" ones. I= 'll have to ponder on
>>> this,
>>> I think my pings need to be labelled by origin (what we were d= oing when they
>>> were sent) not classified as they return.
>>>
>>> if it did get a rating it would be an "D" or "F= "..
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Heh. Anything above a 250ms gets a F from me. But I strong= ly approve
>>>> of simplification to a set of grades.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/378980 F, for sure.<= br> >>>>
>>>> Secondly, we tend to regard bufferbloat as one word not tw= o.
>>>>
>>>> This result got no rating. http://www.dslreports.com/speedte= st/377563
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:07 PM, jb <justinbeech@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > I've added the discussed "bloat rating"= .
>>>> >
>>>> > It takes the idle period before download uses the low= est latency as a
>>>> > baseline.
>>>> > then it takes the median download and median of uploa= d+trailing idle
>>>> > time,
>>>> > and
>>>> > subtracts to get the latency increase, then converts = to a grade.
>>>> >
>>>> > Based on a very few results I've looked at the Gr= ade seems reasonable.
>>>> > I've
>>>> > added
>>>> > a link below the grade for the WTF is this moment a l= ot of people will
>>>> > have,
>>>> > which
>>>> > takes them to a short FAQ entry, and then a link to <= a href=3D"http://bufferbloat.net" target=3D"_blank">bufferbloat.net ..<= br> >>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:32 AM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:32 AM, Juliusz Chrobocz= ek
>>>> >> <jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> wrote:
>>>> >> > Free.fr (Proxad) is certainly much better th= an other ISPs -- they've
>>>> >> > been
>>>> >> > the first to give sort-of-native (6rd) IPv6 = to the masses.=C2=A0 However,
>>>> >> > there's one thing that annoys me -- they= have two distinct CPEs, the
>>>> >> > classic FreeBox (which I have) and the FreeB= ox Revolution (which is
>>>> >> > slightly less cheap, and takes more physical= space -- a big deal if
>>>> >> > you
>>>> >> > live in Paris).=C2=A0 The classic FreeBox ne= eds some love from the
>>>> >> > firmware
>>>> >> > developers, and I'd be curious to know w= hether your results apply
>>>> >> > equally
>>>> >> > to both boxen.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> All ya gotta do is run the new dslreports and/or = rrul test(s) on your
>>>> >> own older box, and post. ;)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> My understanding was that the old freebox was too= weak to run anything
>>>> >> but SFQ, but it did run that on the outbound.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > (The thing that most pisses me off with the = classic FreeBox is that
>>>> >> > it
>>>> >> > doesn't allow IPv6 subnetting -- unless = you order the FreeBox
>>>> >> > Revolution,
>>>> >> > you're condemned to the purgatory of ND-= proxying.=C2=A0 Grr.)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> As tiny as the mods now are to support more exten= sive ipv6 in openwrt,
>>>> >> that certainly was not the case in 2012.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > -- Juliusz
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht
>>>> >> Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** >>>> >>
>>>> >> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRa= ymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67
>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Bloat mailing list
>>>> >> Bl= oat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat<= br> >>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht
>>>> Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware**
>>>>
>>>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/pos= ts/JqxCe2pFr67
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave T=C3=A4ht
>> Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware**
>>
>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe= 2pFr67
>
>
>
> --
> Dave T=C3=A4ht
> Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware**
>
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr= 67



--
Dave T=C3=A4ht
Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware**

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67

--bcaec51a8a9628f9b60514eaaace--