From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm0-x243.google.com (mail-wm0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08CD73B2A4 for ; Fri, 9 Dec 2016 08:57:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-wm0-x243.google.com with SMTP id a20so4218318wme.2 for ; Fri, 09 Dec 2016 05:57:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:cc; bh=/wFfcVVwUW3gGvE3IQiL5vZ2e/g0GH8AwtURiulL+4k=; b=khOEvvHFXPg9bAD4N+as8LQwNVN52jzbjOiVx28wTYs51MaGyA3m4lr+J4v2td8AW9 /PnEo/NJd7mbU20GuaZz1wwE9gcylkEjuX2OrNOuvCJiwPKTcKfo+ikmH2QyuRcynqWT mZ2QJdpD9GtyUm51U3/9HCtGTI6lzBeoFWFgjU2THu+CcfKRqZOWXfLR2ox5ElFwjHtJ b0rPPeQKnEq1fAnoGEr4M4Ux16ghmyEy6miL9sjjlIxmr4uqkWkpA8y/4JaZIf7A6pue Y7vi0Qpwi8YFbQbTiI5MzY6t7vANgUCwBP5JSYkMPGqLmenCGbWguhcOF6Oua9NAzwPc btRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:cc; bh=/wFfcVVwUW3gGvE3IQiL5vZ2e/g0GH8AwtURiulL+4k=; b=KnpplbFZtPUNWz6mbkU25/VlCGTSb6o9pa362YupoXBPfFor8pIyP8O34U/j4XU8N7 3eNHHpIjDRa/GjjY2LPueSHwifNuFy2K44wLSdajnor/rJVe5cLn5OEWlDDClPUKJcp/ 5Ej4A7emwD7PetuQ/Qu9PyfcJNc59goa1QL7bGSbo+7eECx7SfSMm+Pu3ngioc7WbsjB IxGaAt7QgvtLtu76JVMzYFONPxMKqEUfWIkTMd/Z/sD5u0mQjLlszpYB+WXUbFNGfTdU 17hMOaUm8DsgteaXPaJcBeB1iEvl9h8TeuemCzDVqbVY1FU7CXaDlrejviJSKsx20JLh kn8A== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC00yIzlZ41vqcFp5SrM4HAJE0YxalJgv1U8uGEeBuktZLypw0gdA7SxOxGNZjzdbKGlqfiD+yRo/7i7PVg== X-Received: by 10.28.139.12 with SMTP id n12mr6855585wmd.79.1481291831753; Fri, 09 Dec 2016 05:57:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: justinbeech@gmail.com Received: by 10.28.16.195 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Dec 2016 05:56:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: jb Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2016 00:56:31 +1100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: RF82XOw7mxP2HN2K1dNEmjBHN4M Message-ID: Cc: bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11444d9470da2805433a21b1 Subject: Re: [Bloat] What does cablelabs certification actually do? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2016 13:57:13 -0000 --001a11444d9470da2805433a21b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 So after writing, I discovered they were asked about the problem with the Puma6 chipset and stated their job as they see it is mainly to test for standards compliance etc, and they purposely steer clear of performance in order to encourage competition and variety. Or some punt like that. (I'm probably mangling the message bit but that was the gist of it). I guess there are such a huge number of devices and firmware releases it is an endless job to evaluate each for performance in depth (beyond top speed). Perhaps they are like cars before Ralph Nader. Unsafe at any speed? IoT devices would fall into that category for sure! On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > On Fri, 9 Dec 2016, jb wrote: > > And then wondered why certification can't also include verification for >> correctly sized buffers as well? >> > > There is nothing stopping this, and it's being worked on (PIE goes into > DOCSIS 3.1). > > http://www.cablelabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/DOCSIS-AQM_May2014.pdf > https://www.nanog.org/sites/default/files/20160922_Klatsky_ > First_Steps_In_v1.pdf > > Cable Labs (as far as I understand) is an organisation funded by cable > operators and vendors, and they create standards and tests used by the > cable industry. > > I don't know what tests Cable Labs perform, but there is nothing stopping > them from validating buffers+AQM in the modems as well, and I do hope they > do this going forward. > > Why not reach out to Greg White who is mentioned in the cablelabs > DOCSIS-AQM pdf above and ask? Or even better, invite him to this list if > he's not already here. He's on the IETF AQM WG list, I have posts by him in > my folder back to 2013. > > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > --001a11444d9470da2805433a21b1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So after writing, I discovered they were asked about the p= roblem with the Puma6 chipset and stated their job as they see it is mainly= to test for standards compliance etc, and they purposely steer clear of pe= rformance in order to encourage competition and variety. Or some punt like = that. (I'm probably mangling the message bit but that was the gist of i= t).

I guess there are such a huge number of devices and = firmware releases it is an endless job to evaluate each for performance in = depth (beyond top speed). Perhaps they are like cars before Ralph Nader. Un= safe at any speed? IoT devices would fall into that category for sure!

On Fri, De= c 9, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> w= rote:
On Fri, 9 Dec 2016= , jb wrote:

And then wondered why certification can't also include verification for= correctly sized buffers as well?

 There is nothing stopping this, and it's being worked on (PIE goes into= DOCSIS 3.1).

http://www.cablelabs.com/w= p-content/uploads/2014/06/DOCSIS-AQM_May2014.pdf
https://www.nanog.or= g/sites/default/files/20160922_Klatsky_First_Steps_In_v1.pdf<= br>
Cable Labs (as far as I understand) is an organisation funded by cable oper= ators and vendors, and they create standards and tests used by the cable in= dustry.

I don't know what tests Cable Labs perform, but there is nothing stoppi= ng them from validating buffers+AQM in the modems as well, and I do hope th= ey do this going forward.

Why not reach out to Greg White who is mentioned in the cablelabs DOCSIS-AQ= M pdf above and ask? Or even better, invite him to this list if he's no= t already here. He's on the IETF AQM WG list, I have posts by him in my= folder back to 2013.

--
Mikael Abrahamsson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: swmike@swm.pp.se

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