All input is good. Because the general web using population seems to have
barely enough focus to last the length a tweet compared to even five years
ago.

I do tend to react and type first, then later it does have the desired
impact so sorry if it came over as a bit defensive. I fully agree with your
caution in going for big ranking lists!

On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant <
kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> wrote:

>  On 06/06/2015 10:30, jb wrote:
>
> My 2c - I wasn't planning on creating pages listing ISPs in order of
> decreasing buffer bloat score.
>
> Good :-)
>
>
>  And for speeds of course in the USA and most markets there are ranges of
> products each with their own speed and price attached, so ranking ISPs by
> any simple averaging of speeds is pointless as well.
>
> Absolutely.  I despair in this country because there's a regular 'ISP A is
> faster than ISP B' graph/battle...and it really makes no sense.
>
>
>  However I think there is value in map-based speed results especially
> ones that pin down average speeds and technologies to streets and towns,
> and if there is any value at all in grading a single test for bufferbloat
> (or latency to major cities, or jitter, or packet loss ..) then there is
> also value in combining those statistics.
>
> If you're in a geographical/single supplier situation then yes.  In the UK
> it simply doesn't work like that, any area, 'any' supplier.
>
>
>  And even just pure speeds, one can statistically work out products and
> create interesting comparisons, both spot, and changes over time. Even if,
> at least in the US, there is no way to switch because your local cable
> company is your local cable company.
>
> Our speeds are fundamentally controlled by how close to the
> cabinet/exchange you are, not really ISP controlled.  There are 2 bandings
> on VDSL though, 80/20, 40/10.  ADSL is a bit more 'best effort'
> Incidentally VDSL is advertised as a 'fibre' service in this country!  You
> can get real fibre, but really it's Fibre(rare to the home), Cable(Virgin
> Media), VDSL(effectively BT), ADSL(BT&others)
>
>
>  There is also value in showing just how far a few ISPs are ahead of
> everyone.
>
>  For example, in the USA, any speed ranking would put google fiber far
> out in front, and Verizon FIOS far in front for upload speed. Why hide that
> information? There may be a few ISPs that really get on top of buffer bloat
> as well, and highlighting those, if they exist, makes sense to me. This can
> be done without doing a top 100 chart full of nonsense.
>
> :-)  No top 100 nonsense yay :-)
>
> I *am* very interested to see up/down bufferbloat split out by
> ISP/delivery technology though.  And I am very positive about the
> dslreports bloat test, it's really very good and it's great to see people
> making the issue of bufferbloat more measurable and more mainstream.
> Apologies if I've sounded less than appreciative.
>
> Kevin
>