You are failing to make a distinction between the edges (access) and the core (ISP's backbone and interconnects).

At the edges, where multiplexing is relatively low and queueing is required, loss or ECN is necessary to regulate queue occupancy.

In the core, where traffic is highly aggregated and queues are generally tiny, (excess) loss indicates insufficient capacity, and that some users are suffering due to other people's traffic.   In the core losses (or queueing) are nearly always a bad thing.

This one sentence is sufficient to solve much of the net neutrality problem.

See: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics-03

Thanks,
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On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not ideal, but I'm not quite as worried about that as you might be.
> There are several potential causes of packet loss in a network, and
> increasing buffer sizes is only likely to have a minor and temporary effect
> on one of them.

Clearly establishing that 0 packet loss (without ECN) is bad, that
some range of rates of packet loss relative to
bandwidth is GOOD, and levels above that indicative of a problem,
would nice. I can envision a meter
designed to show that.

>
> Meanwhile, increased deployment of ECN would permit adding AQM as a means to
> decrease packet loss.
>
> Random packet loss due to poor quality lines, and also due to dumb policers
> and overloaded core routers, is probably what's intended here.
>
> - Jonathan Morton
>
>
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Dave Täht
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