From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk1-x730.google.com (mail-qk1-x730.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::730]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E7A03CB37 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x730.google.com with SMTP id b142so6623171qkg.2 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 12:51:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=samknows-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ipCHxFCV1TqEpfdsYALjWZvCTxBrg73oo4DmucGT0gk=; b=UWGlQ33KHxMm1u3XZ6W7nIrIM3Sj0qgoM+WfksVlnt/t4/S/ziuMOxI3bBS/A0aF0B 5LpGnmgoxn0YOKVaLe9sEv2cMMRYrpx9zvDbZRObyULV97QG5dOrH/0Y7chdut5e6VNO 4DbMVuZXODyn8xaplK2nyFvb4G+xKS3dhBN7gyL7ZH3qAaIxjj53F7lYFxn6OS9WJlJW kzmc93v/5XYAuO4JL3zHXdVm4Rs4p6Svs/wYe14r7PqmilIE20udT8TP74So8NEY+zCp 7x2QQUNyDacwA2gzGOE/k72FD4wRDNWhx8IXF/bOI5MbhWobp9ukzbRy9fFML3wu8TAC slNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ipCHxFCV1TqEpfdsYALjWZvCTxBrg73oo4DmucGT0gk=; b=H+f43n1fEB1w2GBtXmAjKdmw6aO8iow7fAdkdhnGxS8Dab4mLp9rCsUQ1Nxb+V6wTP 2U9CEdsix3tUuqWT6CXX+8V9aOk3dTB9xmdIOP6ym7bCtksDeVdjVolmCH5bJy8jATpW h35TUnB2015cZ4jyKsBLSyrUjYEfzTgT783TbUxXlOdGV/1nVaH2sdSROButHE1lf95A viVQFoPjjuZzJ30I3t3vSXYaE/S+DKtF96pE8boFUcXjhZISwHwVRcoPw/j8u6vszpQA DsMIx8f9iAvmF/5LVJVrEuuXP+I8i201VGqkResR42rQzHNix60fYZVgoO+ESAPKcooS LOrA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+8ryFAtUo0164Q7e7WeHUkeQUkP5nUaBEP7n5PwgkpSUBYSO6e K3TQE3GU34nyBVOrbWYxln5tmrH3Y4g12tf6ap1McA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1uGy0fXtHQJpYA3FTFYUY6iQ+9wa0PJV6V1Yz68M0nK81sBcOv9QmXXMWZABh/iE2dq9e+mNq70BURFf5nfDdc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1d03:b0:6a7:7ee4:7197 with SMTP id dl3-20020a05620a1d0300b006a77ee47197mr13473465qkb.528.1655668291534; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 12:51:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <81153147-A7F5-4AC7-A07A-320FBE66C94B@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: From: Sam Crawford Message-ID: To: Matt Mathis Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , Dave Taht via Bloat , Rpm , Sebastian Moeller Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000062184105e1d25033" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:23:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Rpm] An 8 years perspective on broadband in the usa - fcc data X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 19:51:32 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 20:51:21 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 19:51:32 -0000 --00000000000062184105e1d25033 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the heads up. Downstream throughput and upstream throughput are measured in indepdent tests, they aren't mixed as the question suggests might be the case. So, latency under downstream load is measured independently from latency under upstream load. The raw data for both is published for the FCC project. I've not read the paper to understand which one they are using. But I'll take a look tomorrow. Thanks Sam On Sun, 19 Jun 2022, 20:39 Matt Mathis, wrote: > Sam, see the question below about your methodology, from your FCC report. > > Thanks, > --MM-- > Evil is defined by mortals who think they know "The Truth" and use force > to apply it to others. > ------------------------------------------- > Matt Mathis (Email is best) > Home & mobile: 412-654-7529 please leave a message if you must call. > > > > On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 8:46 AM Sebastian Moeller via Rpm < > rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> Hi Dave, >> >> > On Jun 19, 2022, at 17:32, Dave Taht via Bloat < >> bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> > >> > It's not clear if they are only measuring downloads in fig 4. ? >> > >> > >> https://vaibhavbajpai.com/documents/papers/proceedings/fcc-networking-20= 22.pdf >> >> indeed: >> >> "The SamKnows probes measure a variety of broadband met- rics [22] over >> IPv4. The tests [22] covered in this paper include: multi-threaded downl= oad >> speed, UDP latency, UDP latency un- der load, and UDP packet loss. The >> tests connect to the closest measurement servers (based on round-trip >> time); measurement servers are hosted both off-net (outside of ISP >> boundary) and on-net (within ISP boundary). The off-net measurement poin= ts >> were hosted by Measurement Lab (M-Lab) [23] and changed to Level 3 >> Communications (CenturyLink) across ten cities in the US, while the on-n= et >> measurement targets are hosted by the ISPs themselves. The FCC publishes >> the raw data for each month [24], along with annual reports on major >> findings [25]. For controllability reasons, the annual MBA reports only >> cover measurements to the off-net locations, i.e., latency results might= be >> inflated due to geographical distance. Thus, we also consider the on-net >> measurements in our analysis." >> >> reference 22 points to >> https://www.fcc.gov/general/measuring-broadband-america-open-methodology >> "Latency under load Average round trip time for a series of regularl= y >> spaced UDP packets sent during downstream/upstream sustained tests" >> >> this seems to imply that it would be mixed upload/download saturation? >> >> >> But I agree that this is unclear... maybe Sam (Crawford) knows (pun >> intended), I do not have his email, but maybe he is on-list or someone e= lse >> can relay that question? >> >> Regards >> Sebastian >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > FQ World Domination pending: >> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/ >> > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Bloat mailing list >> > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rpm mailing list >> Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm >> > --00000000000062184105e1d25033 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the heads up.

=
Downstream throughput and upstream throughput are measure= d in indepdent tests, they aren't mixed as the question suggests might = be the case. So, latency under downstream load is measured independently fr= om latency under upstream load. The raw data for both is published for the = FCC project.

I've no= t read the paper to understand which one they are using. But I'll take = a look tomorrow.

Thanks<= /div>

Sam


On Sun, 19 Jun 20= 22, 20:39 Matt Mathis, <matt.ma= this@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam, see the=C2=A0question below about your methodology, from y= our FCC report.

Thanks,
--MM= --
Evil is defined by mortals who think they know "The Truth" = and use force to apply it to others.=C2=A0
-----------------------------= --------------
Matt Mathis=C2= =A0 (Email is best)
Home &= amp; mobile: 412-654-7529=C2=A0please leave a message if you must ca= ll.


On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 8:46 AM Sebastian Moeller via Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
Hi Dave,

> On Jun 19, 2022, at 17:32, Dave Taht via Bloat <bloat@list= s.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> It's not clear if they are only measuring downloads in fig 4. ? >
> https:= //vaibhavbajpai.com/documents/papers/proceedings/fcc-networking-2022.pdf

indeed:

"The SamKnows probes measure a variety of broadband met- rics [22] ove= r IPv4. The tests [22] covered in this paper include: multi-threaded downlo= ad speed, UDP latency, UDP latency un- der load, and UDP packet loss. The t= ests connect to the closest measurement servers (based on round-trip time);= measurement servers are hosted both off-net (outside of ISP boundary) and = on-net (within ISP boundary). The off-net measurement points were hosted by= Measurement Lab (M-Lab) [23] and changed to Level 3 Communications (Centur= yLink) across ten cities in the US, while the on-net measurement targets ar= e hosted by the ISPs themselves. The FCC publishes the raw data for each mo= nth [24], along with annual reports on major findings [25]. For controllabi= lity reasons, the annual MBA reports only cover measurements to the off-net= locations, i.e., latency results might be inflated due to geographical dis= tance. Thus, we also consider the on-net measurements in our analysis."= ;

reference 22 points to https://www.fcc.gov/general/measuring-broadband-america-open-methodol= ogy
"Latency under load=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Average round trip time for a s= eries of regularly spaced UDP packets sent during downstream/upstream susta= ined tests"

this seems to imply that it would be mixed upload/download saturation?


But I agree that this is unclear... maybe Sam (Crawford) knows (pun intende= d), I do not have his email, but maybe he is on-list or someone else can re= lay that question?

Regards
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sebastian


>
>
> --
> FQ World Domination pending: https:/= /blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/b= loat

_______________________________________________
Rpm mailing list
Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net
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