From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oa1-x32.google.com (mail-oa1-x32.google.com [IPv6:2001:4860:4864:20::32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EBF83CB38 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 18:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oa1-x32.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-27022a3536dso2043953fac.2 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 15:12:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=broadcom.com; s=google; t=1724105569; x=1724710369; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=EFjatOoxYHcZVVazMj4dyq9sTooHACjtGXjhsROGj44=; b=U2rKr/3GxUFf7HCSholYk7pE5sOIgWGjlTufViJM9ljBy8tV0qwwU+L6ZLdERSvD91 5Gw7hDFn/vyb5XZzJLW9uRoMZwCGpEz0iRIDtgfX0QWZg/t9zxNjANsEfkt4PF7l2ght KIeuyDlZjXrs87hirSHVKKi3ln9fcw0Vpdc58= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1724105569; x=1724710369; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=EFjatOoxYHcZVVazMj4dyq9sTooHACjtGXjhsROGj44=; b=N2DJSg5v3dzdtJnWZs3P2IRn5FHj7BOzYhy4War29GZHkQ78slE1YnZPC027EEm2TY jbVlVKAiQr7lzk2NEsKqiRvpvy8WlvbQIxBEWVAa+1y+yyD17V1FGkzfsoFmzjCVENKL 0Qn0nC+aHxgIRf1P2Yj+1K9jufDgJfdOqN8/F+Z6GI9lRtii0wemo5ikCubT3exEcqEX YJ5tst2SgN8E0LuN4yEpWvRT6cY5T8nF7Fw1fbcVl4GtOxSbw4VGw8EXu+6P93CE3iSL zGBohqwKe25MxjCSrRjQEk8aW2uodK9o5qdz4TZRxUkIbx/+lW/bpt1isEhgMNdQk1ev LNVw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWxVUzLAcNtaNhSGi3xvZ2/6P8txApkQYOH0xFuII4tAOoXVUBMFyUSFjx1hf3Yw3QeWcgvQg==@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzQcym9D3CuCIPCJcS6My/lHcajMiFo4+TVGK4nRK5hEkAhBYdE SxdS2rUXwrtSjBnK66V0ySzF5/gViPcwA54FLFB+9oBOaAEsqz2KGXVW1IulKhi5dJVk6NGVXKp 6Ro9YWYMZ0HUT02tDDPKBQ+QQs0dPldxj0h4GGpLYTK58z5pb6mc2eQVjyt9AJXd97zUVsiQS/3 BkcQvspl3uu5BznV0ycVqDixRI X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHI60bQQeyrN23AsXlfvv3pdDG+2T+Yiv5VmTbtjOgee5B2BWoFDjJ/F3QOPCyFsHxUqqwth2Tsexf7w4nYtBw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:4414:b0:261:1b0f:dc94 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2701c574910mr11393384fac.45.1724105568842; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 15:12:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <93639364-6937-4EE6-B218-2A02AF212362@gmail.com> <00D0FC8B-AC22-43DE-80F5-E86A786D15EA@comcast.com> In-Reply-To: <00D0FC8B-AC22-43DE-80F5-E86A786D15EA@comcast.com> From: Bob McMahon Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2024 15:12:36 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Livingood, Jason" Cc: Rich Brown , "make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net" , bloat Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="0000000000000313050620109c81" Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] Looking for a citation... X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2024 22:12:49 -0000 --0000000000000313050620109c81 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fc9a240620109b9a" --000000000000fc9a240620109b9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > for users with access links that exceed 800~Mbps, the user's home wireless network was the performance bottleneck 100% of the time. hmm, I'm concerned about a study that has a 100% number. I have a home Wi-Fi infrastructure and a >1G xfinity plan. I don't have a Wi-Fi bottleneck because I use a 2.5G wired fronhaul with a 4 port proteclli vault pro connected to 4 Wi-Fi 6e APs that are located properly per spacetime. I didn't need to consult with anybody nor get others agreements to do this. As a homeowner, I did it all by myself. Wi-Fi has never been the problem since doing this despite the 100% claim. I treat communications like an essential service. I don't run all my electrical devices from one single extension cord. Probably time for homeowners to think about updating their comm infra and treat it as if it's a critical service because it is. Bob On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 6:29=E2=80=AFAM Livingood, Jason via Make-wifi-fast= < make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > See https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.05499 and the refs at the end as well for > prior studies. > > > Measuring the Prevalence of WiFi Bottlenecks in Home Access Networks > > Ranya Sharma, Marc Richardson, Guilherme Martins, Nick Feamster > > As broadband Internet speeds continue to increase, the home wireless > ("WiFi") network may more frequently become a performance bottleneck. Pas= t > research, now nearly a decade old, initially documented this phenomenon > through indirect inference techniques, noting the prevalence of WiFi > bottlenecks but never directly measuring them. In the intervening years, > access network (and WiFi) speeds have increased, warranting a re-appraisa= l > of this important question, particularly with renewed private and federal > investment in access network infrastructure. This paper studies this > question, developing a new system and measurement technique to perform > direct measurements of WiFi and access network performance, ultimately > collecting and analyzing a first-of-its-kind dataset of more than 13,000 > joint measurements of WiFi and access network throughputs, in a real-worl= d > deployment spanning more than 50 homes, for nearly two years. Using this > dataset, we re-examine the question of whether, when, and to what extent = a > user's home wireless network may be a performance bottleneck, particularl= y > relative to their access connection. We do so by directly and continuousl= y > measuring the user's Internet performance along two separate components o= f > the Internet path -- from a wireless client inside the home network to th= e > wired point of access (e.g., the cable modem), and from the wired point o= f > access to the user's ISP. Confirming and revising results from more than = a > decade ago, we find that a user's home wireless network is often the > throughput bottleneck. In particular, for users with access links that > exceed 800~Mbps, the user's home wireless network was the performance > bottleneck 100% of the time. > > =EF=BB=BFOn 8/18/24, 05:08, "Bloat on behalf of Rich Brown via Bloat" < > bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of > bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > wrote: > > > In various posts, I have baldly asserted that "above 300-500mbps ISP > links, all the bufferbloat moves into the Wi-Fi." > > > I am pretty sure that I someone on these lists stated that as fact. > > > Could I get a link to a discussion that is definitive? Or a statement tha= t > is actually true that I can incorporate into my future posts? Many thanks= . > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat_= _;!!CQl3mcHX2A!Hx6KOEdA33LoKQOuNmwKNbenbWB3x_uE0dpwptAGKVkIPym66koG6UHe8M0F= 4nLSAou42YEvAlZm9ctVKh8AMdt0daaYlQ$ > < > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat_= _;!!CQl3mcHX2A!Hx6KOEdA33LoKQOuNmwKNbenbWB3x_uE0dpwptAGKVkIPym66koG6UHe8M0F= 4nLSAou42YEvAlZm9ctVKh8AMdt0daaYlQ$> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Make-wifi-fast mailing list > Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast --=20 This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted= =20 with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for=20 the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain= =20 information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy= =20 laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are=20 not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the=20 e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use,=20 copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of= =20 this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error,= =20 please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and= =20 destroy any printed copy of it. --000000000000fc9a240620109b9a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> for users with access links that exceed 800~Mbps, the= user's home wireless network was the performance bottleneck 100% of th= e time.

hmm, I'm concerned about a study that has a 100% number.=

I have a home Wi-Fi infrastructure and a >1G xfinity plan. I don= 't have a Wi-Fi bottleneck=C2=A0because I use a 2.5G wired fronhaul wit= h a 4 port proteclli=C2=A0vault pro connected to 4 Wi-Fi 6e APs that are lo= cated properly per spacetime.=C2=A0 I didn't need to consult with anybo= dy nor get others agreements to do this. As a homeowner, I did it all by my= self. Wi-Fi has never been the problem since doing this despite the 100% cl= aim.

I treat=C2=A0communications like an essential service. I don= 9;t run all my electrical devices from one single extension cord. Probably = time for homeowners=C2=A0to think about=C2=A0updating their comm infra and = treat it as if it's a critical service because=C2=A0it is.

Bob


On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 6:29=E2=80=AFAM Livingood, Jason via Make= -wifi-fast <make= -wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
See https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.0549= 9 and the refs at the end as well for prior studies.


Measuring the Prevalence of WiFi Bottlenecks in Home Access Networks

Ranya Sharma, Marc Richardson, Guilherme Martins, Nick Feamster

As broadband Internet speeds continue to increase, the home wireless ("= ;WiFi") network may more frequently become a performance bottleneck. P= ast research, now nearly a decade old, initially documented this phenomenon= through indirect inference techniques, noting the prevalence of WiFi bottl= enecks but never directly measuring them. In the intervening years, access = network (and WiFi) speeds have increased, warranting a re-appraisal of this= important question, particularly with renewed private and federal investme= nt in access network infrastructure. This paper studies this question, deve= loping a new system and measurement technique to perform direct measurement= s of WiFi and access network performance, ultimately collecting and analyzi= ng a first-of-its-kind dataset of more than 13,000 joint measurements of Wi= Fi and access network throughputs, in a real-world deployment spanning more= than 50 homes, for nearly two years. Using this dataset, we re-examine the= question of whether, when, and to what extent a user's home wireless n= etwork may be a performance bottleneck, particularly relative to their acce= ss connection. We do so by directly and continuously measuring the user'= ;s Internet performance along two separate components of the Internet path = -- from a wireless client inside the home network to the wired point of acc= ess (e.g., the cable modem), and from the wired point of access to the user= 's ISP. Confirming and revising results from more than a decade ago, we= find that a user's home wireless network is often the throughput bottl= eneck. In particular, for users with access links that exceed 800~Mbps, the= user's home wireless network was the performance bottleneck 100% of th= e time.

=EF=BB=BFOn 8/18/24, 05:08, "Bloat on behalf of Rich Brown via Bloat&q= uot; <bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:bloat-bounces@lists= .bufferbloat.net> on behalf of bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:bloat@lists.bu= fferbloat.net>> wrote:


In various posts, I have baldly asserted that "above 300-500mbps ISP l= inks, all the bufferbloat moves into the Wi-Fi."


I am pretty sure that I someone on these lists stated that as fact.


Could I get a link to a discussion that is definitive? Or a statement that = is actually true that I can incorporate into my future posts? Many thanks.<= br> _______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@list= s.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/= bloat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!Hx6KOEdA33LoKQOuNmwKNbenbWB3x_uE0dpwptAGKVkIPym66koG6U= He8M0F4nLSAou42YEvAlZm9ctVKh8AMdt0daaYlQ$ <https://urldefens= e.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!Hx6K= OEdA33LoKQOuNmwKNbenbWB3x_uE0dpwptAGKVkIPym66koG6UHe8M0F4nLSAou42YEvAlZm9ct= VKh8AMdt0daaYlQ$>



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